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Liberty Debate Tournament Judging

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Judging Sign-Up

Hello, my name is Jace Gilmore and this year I have the opportunity to be the co-chair of Cross-examination champ division. On January 11th and 12th the Liberty High School Speech and Debate Team will be hosting its third annual invitational speech and debate tournament. We are already hard at work to make this effort a success.

In order for a tournament to be successful, it must have judges. At all the tournaments we attend, the people who judge the students are community members who may have some or no knowledge of the activity before they decide to judge. However, experience would be nice to have in a cross-examination event.

This year we would like to round up a great batch of experienced flow- debaters who know what they are doing, and have the yearning to help improve the education in a policy debate round to let the debaters perform to their fullest. So I am asking you, experienced judges of the community, to step up and participate in one of the largest tournaments in Missouri.

-Below you will find a form that we would much appreciate you filing out. Please indicate the times in which would be best for you to judge.

Sean Nicewaner Cassie Price Jace Gilmore

Debate Dir. Forensics Dir. Champ cross-x chair

 

Name___________________________________ Phone # (816)___________________

Address____________________________________________________________

City_______________________ State________ Zip_____________

Times I could judge: (sign up for as many as you like)

Friday, January 11, 2008 |Saturday, January 12, 2008

*out rounds

(Friday)6:30-8:00pm________ | (Saturday) 10:00-11:30am_________ (Saturday)3:00pm-4:30pm________

(Friday)8:00-9:30pm________ | (Saturday)11:30am-12:00pm_________ (Saturday)5:30pm-7:00pm________

Preferences:_________________________________ | (Saturday) 7:00pm-8:30pm________

*Please mail the below form to Sean Nicewaner or Cassie Price at Liberty High School , or e-mail the copy to me by December 30th or contact us by phone at (816) 736-5340. If you mail to Nicewaner or contact them by phone please e-mail me a copy of form at jace.gilmore <at> gmail.com.

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Judging Sign-Up

Hello, my name is Jace Gilmore and this year I have the opportunity to be the co-chair of Cross-examination champ division. On January 11th and 12th the Liberty High School Speech and Debate Team will be hosting its third annual invitational speech and debate tournament. We are already hard at work to make this effort a success.

In order for a tournament to be successful, it must have judges. At all the tournaments we attend, the people who judge the students are community members who may have some or no knowledge of the activity before they decide to judge. However, experience would be nice to have in a cross-examination event.

This year we would like to round up a great batch of experienced flow- debaters who know what they are doing, and have the yearning to help improve the education in a policy debate round to let the debaters perform to their fullest. So I am asking you, experienced judges of the community, to step up and participate in one of the largest tournaments in Missouri.

 

-Below you will find a form that we would much appreciate you filing out. Please indicate the times in which would be best for you to judge.

 

Sean Nicewaner Cassie Price Jace Gilmore

Debate Dir. Forensics Dir. Champ cross-x chair

 

 

 

Name___________________________________ Phone # (816)___________________

 

Address____________________________________________________________

 

City_______________________ State________ Zip_____________

 

Times I could judge: (sign up for as many as you like)

Friday, January 11, 2008 |Saturday, January 12, 2008

*out rounds

(Friday)6:30-8:00pm________ | (Saturday) 10:00-11:30am_________ (Saturday)3:00pm-4:30pm________

 

(Friday)8:00-9:30pm________ | (Saturday)11:30am-12:00pm_________ (Saturday)5:30pm-7:00pm________

 

Preferences:_________________________________ | (Saturday) 7:00pm-8:30pm________

 

*Please mail the below form to Sean Nicewaner or Cassie Price at Liberty High School , or e-mail the copy to me by December 30th or contact us by phone at (816) 736-5340. If you mail to Nicewaner or contact them by phone please e-mail me a copy of form at jace.gilmore <at> gmail.com.

 

who's your co-chair?

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Please come and judge you guys, we really want to have a successfully run tournament and have as much of a qualified judging pool as we can. By the way, thanks zain

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Please mail the below form to Sean Nicewaner or Cassie Price at Liberty High School[/font][/b]

 

I would just like to point out that Nicewaner wouldn't let me judge at HOA last year because I refused to judge events that I DIDN'T do in high school. He said absolutely NO policy debate judging for me. I have e-mails to prove this.

 

It'll be a cold dark day in hell before I'd do anything out of my way to help Liberty High School or Sean Nicewaner.

 

And I'd like to encourage everyone else to do the same. I mean, it's not like I could even show up to this anyway, I gotta be in Denver...but still. People that run district tournaments like that should not be given any credit for attempting to run an even half-way legitimate invitational.

 

Bottom line. Nicewaner is an idiot. Oh, and so is David Watkins. But that's neither here nor there.

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I'm sorry for any inconvenience that my coach has caused you in the past, but don't petition to have everyone boycott the tournament just because of your disagreements. I encourage anyone to judge that possibly could, and I can have it so that you judge policy and not other events such as puff or LD if you prefer. You, and you alone, have the power to choose whether or not to judge an ie. Please try to make this invitation an enjoyable experience for everyone.

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I agree with Kyle. Until people who take judging high school debate seriously and actually attempt to give back to the debate community are allowed to judge with no strings attached no one should go out of their way to help out. I would have not said this the last two years, but after three years of giving back I am disgusted at the way we are treated.

 

And by "people" i mean college students who actually know what the hell they are doing

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That's the thing, there are no strings attatched. Nice doesn't care.

 

That's why they all say until you get to the tournament, and then can only judge one or two rounds (kickapoo last year, where i had to tell them i was greenwood's coach because apparently that made me super qualified)

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I think this is hilarious. People complain that they can't judge at tournaments, but when one offers them an opportunity to judge without any strings attached, they refuse to do so. I think you should reconsider, because when Jace says there aren't any strings attached, there really aren't. You can all judge Champ CX, although I would advise that you save yourself for outrounds. Additionally, I know two years ago, we had a sick panel for finals.

 

this post makes me sad i ever had to vote for you... luckily it was on bad arguments that only a sophisticated college student that is not a moron at debate would vote for (maybe proving my argument).

 

i do not refuse to judge at liberty for any personal reason, only that the situation that kyle presents is too common place. People say there are zero strings attached, but when you get there it is entirely different. i will not drive to kansas city just because there is some guarantee that we will be allowed to judge. you wholly misconstrue our argument.

 

if liberty is different and allows anyone to judge like good tournaments like parkview and marquette (funny how this is two schools that adam and i call our alma maters), then i apologize.

 

but i have gone to tournaments that say they will allow you to judge, and then don't. if you ever actually give back to missouri high school debate you will realize what i am talking about.

 

i have never had anything against you, zain, but you have also never been through what some of have (in regards to attempting to give back to mo high school debate).

 

peace,

kevin

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this post makes me sad i ever had to vote for you... luckily it was on bad arguments that only a sophisticated college student that is not a moron at debate would vote for (maybe proving my argument).

 

i do not refuse to judge at liberty for any personal reason, only that the situation that kyle presents is too common place. People say there are zero strings attached, but when you get there it is entirely different. i will not drive to kansas city just because there is some guarantee that we will be allowed to judge. you wholly misconstrue our argument.

 

if liberty is different and allows anyone to judge like good tournaments like parkview and marquette (funny how this is two schools that adam and i call our alma maters), then i apologize.

 

but i have gone to tournaments that say they will allow you to judge, and then don't. if you ever actually give back to missouri high school debate you will realize what i am talking about.

 

i have never had anything against you, zain, but you have also never been through what some of have (in regards to attempting to give back to mo high school debate).

 

peace,

kevin

 

I apologize if my post sounded antagonizing. I was just frustrated, because Jace is legitimately trying to make Liberty a good tournament. I am sure that you've exprienced some atrocious things, in your efforts to give back to MO and I'm sorry that that happened. But all I was saying is that, Jace has good reason for what he is saying, because when we recruit judges at Liberty, you are allowed to put your preference on the form and the judges chairs make every effort to meet that preference.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that way about voting for me, but that is besides the point. I will definitely give back to MO debate, when I can (because I'm kind of far away), and I'm sure that I will experience what you have, but I don't think that is a reason to boycott all tournaments.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

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I apologize if my post sounded antagonizing. I was just frustrated, because Jace is legitimately trying to make Liberty a good tournament. I am sure that you've exprienced some atrocious things, in your efforts to give back to MO and I'm sorry that that happened. But all I was saying is that, Jace has good reason for what he is saying, because when we recruit judges at Liberty, you are allowed to put your preference on the form and the judges chairs make every effort to meet that preference.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that way about voting for me, but that is besides the point. I will definitely give back to MO debate, when I can (because I'm kind of far away), and I'm sure that I will experience what you have, but I don't think that is a reason to boycott all tournaments.

 

I hope you will reconsider.

 

You don't think Kyle and I (and Adam, now) are frustrated every time there is a tournament that does not allow us to judge because of our age? Jace has good reason for what he is saying insofar as it is his word. The sad part of MO high school debate is that I could be signed up to judge all those things, and then a tournament director can remove you from judging those rounds (the best example is from kickapoo, where i was actually in direct contact with sparkman)

 

No, I will not reconsider making a 6 hour drive before finals week to judge a tournament where i probably won't get ballots. The issue is that MOST tournament directors will push ballots to community judges first, and then *maybe* there is a ballot or two left for college students.

 

i obviously think that if liberty is truly allowing smart people to judge debates, then that is a good thing, but with what kyle said last year about HOA is true, i'm skeptical

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Yeah, Kevin is just right on this. I was talking to my HS coach the other day and HOA Districts is ACTUALLY FINALLY changing the 3 year out rule to allow college debaters to come back and judge these tournaments whilst getting paid so we don't have another fiasco like there was last year.

 

Furthermore, those judges who do come back get preference judging. In this instance meaning they choose which rounds they would like to judge and get paid for said events.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous for students in HS right now to talk about how there are no strings attached. One reason Nick Dudley told me he was going to stop judging at HOA (who was probably the most faithful reoccuring judges at that tournament) was that 1. the debate isn't getting any better and 2. they just aren't using him and instead they are preferencing community judges.

 

I know strikes and MPJ are a long way away from ever hitting a Missouri tournament but if a judge requests a specific event then you should probably let them judge that event. They don't let cricket umpires ref NFL football games.

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For once I'm not gonna argue with Keegan, but the "dirty" judging rule is something I have always been in favor of removing and have talked to numerous coaches about it.

 

I think there needs to be a similar rule in college tournaments where as prelims and outrounds are treated completely different. It wouldn't be hard to do especially in a world where a lot of missouri tournaments are 4 rounds then quarters. You already have a lot of good teams not breaking because of speaks, opp w/l, or something else so having a very qualified judge judging a team they saw earlier won't hurt a damn thing.

 

I do understand that at NFL quals there might be a little bit different of a rule than this since there really isn't a designated out round schedule per se and it is just the survival of the fittest, but I still think it would be ok for a judge to judge a team round 1 then judge them against in round 5 or later. I don't even think there is a logical or statistical reason as to why tournaments are not doing this.

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Yeah, Kevin is just right on this. I was talking to my HS coach the other day and HOA Districts is ACTUALLY FINALLY changing the 3 year out rule to allow college debaters to come back and judge these tournaments whilst getting paid so we don't have another fiasco like there was last year.

 

Furthermore, those judges who do come back get preference judging. In this instance meaning they choose which rounds they would like to judge and get paid for said events.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous for students in HS right now to talk about how there are no strings attached. One reason Nick Dudley told me he was going to stop judging at HOA (who was probably the most faithful reoccuring judges at that tournament) was that 1. the debate isn't getting any better and 2. they just aren't using him and instead they are preferencing community judges.

 

I know strikes and MPJ are a long way away from ever hitting a Missouri tournament but if a judge requests a specific event then you should probably let them judge that event. They don't let cricket umpires ref NFL football games.

 

Whoa?

What's the speculative new qualifications for judging HOA districts?

 

Moreover, I'm not going to attempt to intensify any on going disagreements...but I've been struck from judging Liberty at Park Hill South.

 

Not only in policy, or even debate...but even IEs.

I blame that trash on Nicewainer but also on tournament directors who allow it to happen. I was rather insulted that anyone thought that I'd actually vote down a team because of their affiliation...not sure if anyone knows me well enough, but I'd never do that.

 

Moreover, I think could be wrong here and feel free to call me out but it seems as if Kyle/Kev's concern goes beyond just Liberty's invitational but also towards HOA's district tournament.

Why reap the benefits of an inclusive opportunity when in all likelyhood you'll get shot down when it counts?

I think they might want to refrain from endorsing a community that will only momentarily care about the time they sacrifice attempting to help debate in MO.

 

Just my $.02...

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the new stipulation for the judging criterion for HOA is that college competitors who are atleast 2 years out can judge the tournament. At the same time they get a preference of which events they would like to judge. There has never been an actual NFL rule saying that X judge had to be out for so many numbers of years which is why alot of judges at last years NFL were made up of college debaters who weren't in there 3rd and 4th years out.

 

At the coaches meeting there was an overwhelming majority who favored reducing the requirements to get many people to come back.

 

If NFL hires you it is a page position (I believe $10 a round) but I also know schools are now going to be required to provide X amount of judges for so many teams like the college tounaments do so you may be able to get on with another school as well.

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Whoa?

What's the speculative new qualifications for judging HOA districts?

 

Moreover, I'm not going to attempt to intensify any on going disagreements...but I've been struck from judging Liberty at Park Hill South.

 

Not only in policy, or even debate...but even IEs.

I blame that trash on Nicewainer but also on tournament directors who allow it to happen. I was rather insulted that anyone thought that I'd actually vote down a team because of their affiliation...not sure if anyone knows me well enough, but I'd never do that.

 

Moreover, I think could be wrong here and feel free to call me out but it seems as if Kyle/Kev's concern goes beyond just Liberty's invitational but also towards HOA's district tournament.

Why reap the benefits of an inclusive opportunity when in all likelyhood you'll get shot down when it counts?

I think they might want to refrain from endorsing a community that will only momentarily care about the time they sacrifice attempting to help debate in MO.

 

Just my $.02...

 

you've been struck from judging at any tournament in this hemisphere...why was that instance so uniquely shitty?

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you've been struck from judging at any tournament in this hemisphere...why was that instance so uniquely shitty?

 

Butch...

 

You sir...are a dumbfuck

 

Next, I've only been struck from judging altogether from my own alma mater because I refused to suck off my coach constantly especially when she made shitty decisions...

I guess that's why you're always welcome to come back.

 

Moreover, I was struck from judging Liberty at PHS, not from judging altogether.

Funnily enough, Holden got Fortune to call me to show up...

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Butch...

 

You sir...are a dumbfuck

 

Next, I've only been struck from judging altogether from my own alma mater because I refused to suck off my coach constantly especially when she made shitty decisions...

I guess that's why you're always welcome to come back.

 

Moreover, I was struck from judging Liberty at PHS, not from judging altogether.

Funnily enough, Holden got Fortune to call me to show up...

 

 

I like your lies; they're festive

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I like your lies; they're festive

 

If you can prove anything I said as false I'll be your lackey, kinda like you were to Fortune...

And how the fuck would you know?

You don't show up or talk to anyone...I know what you're going to say, that I'm a loser for "hanging around HS debate" which is not only false but a cop out for you being a bitch...

 

 

That is all...

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so...

 

i've never been in a college debater's situation, but let me see if i have this right. a bunch are upset because when there is a tournament, they are told they can't judge, and when they are told they can, they end up judging prose/poetry, only to get to the room and have been struck by some dumb coach. and this is because missouri is a terrible place to debate, because no coaches ever want college judges to debate.

 

and this is insulting because many college judges are completely objective in their decision making process, and would never vote down any team for anything that the team had done outside of the debate round.

 

is this right?

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