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KookiePhoenix

[AFF] RFID

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You are both wrong.

 

No I mean that plan guaranteeing that aid get to the recipients is the only way they can actually solve for their advantages, in the case of RFIDs, a problem in delivery is solved so PHA advs can and should be claimed.

 

The plan doesn't guarantee that more drugs get sent. It just makes it easier for current levels of drugs we already send to be used in the intended countries.

 

Well there would be a quantitative increase anyways. Cheaper prices mean higher number of drugs demanded, means greater assistance.

 

The plan doesn't claim to lower the cost of drugs. In fact, the cost of drugs sold to African governments themselves would go up because they have expensive RFID tags attached. And even at best, that's effects T.

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No, there's a card they read in the 1AC (i forget the author) outlining lower drug prices. The rationale is that corporations won't be as concerned about their drugs getting diverted and resold. Not sure how good the evidence is, though

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The Mercurio 06 (?) evidence says Pharma companies perceive the risk of drug diversion so they won't continue to throw cheap drugs at places like SSA. The RFID Analyst 03 evidence says RFID->asset visibility which has solved diversion of parallel markets and thus would work to stop drug diversion, giving the industry more confidence in selling more at lower prices.

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Well there would be a quantitative increase anyways. Cheaper prices mean higher number of drugs demanded, means greater assistance.

 

One thing I don't understand. It seems like the aff talks about how GOVERNMENTS take cheap drugs and sell them at higher prices, but if the USFG's "assistance" isn't exporting drugs, but rather, encouraging private sales, wouldn't it just be African INDIVIDUALS who resell their drugs in the gray market?

 

nope

cards are specific to drugs getting stolen en route

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You are both wrong.

 

 

 

The plan doesn't guarantee that more drugs get sent. It just makes it easier for current levels of drugs we already send to be used in the intended countries.

 

 

 

The plan doesn't claim to lower the cost of drugs. In fact, the cost of drugs sold to African governments themselves would go up because they have expensive RFID tags attached. And even at best, that's effects T.

 

basically. Jason's interp is that assistance doesnt mean guaranteeing it reaches SSA. i dont really know what you two are attempting to argue in favor of why this aff is topical, but imo securing the supply chain isn't topical; that's a question of solvency.

 

Like Jason said earlier, running a DDT aff and then hearing an argument that says "DDT doesnt reach SSA" doesnt mean the aff is untopical, it means your plan doesnt solve.

 

Likewise on the flipside, solving that distribution error is not an increase in the assistance that we give, its an increase in assistance that SSA receives. This aff (the way you are arguing vs. T, ive heard differently in rounds) would be topical if the rez said "The USFG should increase the PHA received by SSA" or something along those lines. It's obviously debatable and up to consideration of evidence read (the ev that says supply chain management=PHA, if it exists) to find if it does meet our resolution, however at first glance (a very thorough first glance, i might add) this aff isn't T.

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Does this aff claim any external reasons why RFID is good other than diversion bad/pharma law suits?

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Does this aff claim any external reasons why RFID is good other than diversion bad/pharma law suits?

 

Counterfeiting... which is the internal link into pharma law suits, and people die from counterfeit drugs.

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what about running this as a CP to generics aff that try to stay on the policy side of the neolib debate

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That could work, I also think that the args in this aff are really good because they can function as solv takeouts/turns to generic give drugs affs

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Counterfeiting... which is the internal link into pharma law suits, and people die from counterfeit drugs.

 

Ok, but doesn't counterfeiting result from diversion or is there a different internal link?

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Guest svfrey

lol

i might be kinda nice if either brian or karlson were actually on this site.....

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Ok, but doesn't counterfeiting result from diversion or is there a different internal link?

 

Um, I guess it's probably easier to counterfeit drugs if all the real ones are being diverted. But I think in reality, they're isolated situations

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Um, I guess it's probably easier to counterfeit drugs if all the real ones are being diverted. But I think in reality, they're isolated situations

 

i dont think so

its very rare that internal links are from the same author because usually one thing doesnt lead to another but in this case most of the internal links are solid

ok so basically what happens is X box of medicine is going someplace. diverters steal X and take the meds inside and either replace them with already made counterfeit drugs, or they simply diffuse the medicinal contents with non-medicinal contents. the excess boxes produced get sold to other pharmaceuticals

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i dont think so

its very rare that internal links are from the same author because usually one thing doesnt lead to another but in this case most of the internal links are solid

ok so basically what happens is X box of medicine is going someplace. diverters steal X and take the meds inside and either replace them with already made counterfeit drugs, or they simply diffuse the medicinal contents with non-medicinal contents. the excess boxes produced get sold to other pharmaceuticals

 

why would you put counterfeit drugs in medicine that you're diverting, i.e. reselling at a higher cost to places like Europe?

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the ev i have read on the case seems to indicate diversion more than counterfeiting. i think jason is correct in his characterization that counterfeiting is more isolated, because it seems to me that the major problem is companies get confused on where the drugs r supposed to go, and just ship them back to europe.

 

So maybe there are some instances with counterfeiting, but im betting that its far more rare than the diversion.

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why would you put counterfeit drugs in medicine that you're diverting, i.e. reselling at a higher cost to places like Europe?

 

because by putting in counterfeit drugs, it multiplies their original supply, for example if they steal one box, instead of simply reselling that one box, they dilute the medicine with other substances and then have, lets say for the purpose of conversation, 3 boxes to sell at cheaper prices

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The biggest problem I have with this case is that most of the 1ac is power tagged. If you do the research you will find that the law referenced in the first card, the FDA Revitalization Act, doesn't prevent drug companies from using RFID and government officials have said the act actually encourages their use. Another problem is that the Mercurio ‘6 is actually talking about parallel importation. This is the practice of a country importing a product for a cheap price and then exporting it to a second country at a higher price. The law review the card comes from says this is a legal practice; RFIDs will do nothing to solve this. When it comes to counterfeit drugs, the RFIDs at best will go in the bottle not on the drug. The best counterfeiters already use real packaging that used/stolen/discarded and therefore would contain an RFID with an ePedigree.

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Guest svfrey

heyy, will.

just the 2AC we were looking for

we've been trying to understand your's/midget's RFID aff

but we seem to have some differences of opinion.

the original question of "can someone please explain this aff" has morphed into a multi-faceted quandary that i'm not even sure of anymore...

i guess we're looking for a basic explanation of this aff, specifically whether it centers around diversion or counterfeiting

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Diversion vs. counterfeiting? well it claims to solve both, as they are both internal links into both the economy (through pharma profits) and Africa (through lack of drug access). The diversions argument is fairly straightforward: corrupt African governments and their shipping partners take the drugs that USAID donates/sells at cost (cost here being raw cost of production, so it doesn't have prices jacked up to cover pharma's massive R&D costs) and then ships them off to be resold in Europe. Obviously that isn't so good for the African people who need drugs, but it also functionally forces pharma to compete with themselves in Europe, since they are trying to sell drugs there at a far higher price. The re-sale of drugs punctures their tiered-pricing scheme and hurts their profits. Most of that is from Thompson and Graham. Then that in turn affects the willingness of pharma companies to donate/sell cheap drugs, since they know they're gonna get diverted (Mercurio '06). That is all for Diversions.

 

Counterfeiting: this argument has many more internal links to both the economy and the Africans, since it is probably a worse form of crime. Random (non-governmental) crime rings make counterfeit drugs and sell them in African markets, in some areas up to 90% of drugs are fakes to some degree (Bate and Boateng '07). Most of the counterfeiters are in either India, China or Latin America, counterfeiting US drugs. Aside from being obviously useless, the counterfeits can be actively harmful in 2 ways. First, they create resistance to the drugs, since they often contain insufficient levels of the active ingredient in order to pass chemical inspections. Unfortunately, if the drug is delivered in low doses it functions as a reverse vaccine for the germs and renders even proper doses of the drugs useless. Second, some of the drugs will contain really bad compounds (Cyanide in Tylenol, antifreeze in cough syrup, etc). If you buy one of those bottles, you're basically gonna die immediately. So that's how it sucks for the Africans. It also harms pharma for 3 reasons: 1) directly competes with their products 2) lowers consumer demand by damaging the brand name (KPMG ev) and 3) opens companies up to costly negligence suits (Capellio).

 

Although counterfeiting and diversion are solved by the same means (RFID) that does not mean they are the same, nor that one must solve one in order to solve the other. If the Neg takes out solvency for diversions, you can still solve counterfeits and vice versa. Conversely, just because a CPAr solves for diversions, doesn't necessarily mean it can solve for counterfeiting. I think one common misconception is that the drugs cannot be counterfeited until they are first diverted, which is false. They don't have to steal them in order to reproduce them. The "drugs" they're producing aren't even chemically similar, so they don't need to actually copy them, they only need to make them look the same, which they can do just by looking at them in the store and/or buying one package. These are multi-million dollar crime rings we're talking about, so I think they can prolly put up the cash for one box of artemisinin. Another misconception is that the international nature of the problem somehow matters. The whole point of putting RFID's on drugs is to distinguish the real drugs, not to prevent the fakes from existing. The Chinese can continue to make bad drugs for all we care, but nobody would buy them if they don't have RFID's on them or if they have RFID's that don't work or RFID's with a duplicate signal (if they somehow managed to find a real number and use it on a fake).

 

That's basically all for basic explanation. Let me know if you have any more specific questions.

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boo. what's the question?

 

IT'S THE FUCKING KING!

 

You better still have your crown(s). Or I will destroy you.

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Guest svfrey

i dunno

my guess is that you need some sort of "mandate from above" in order to force compliance from big pharma.

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several basic reasons: 1) USAID gives most stuff (particularly anti-malarials, which are the basis of our advantage), 2) cost, 3) standardization among several competing frequencies 4) yes, ensuring compliance if necessary

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