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Fight Club

Hamas Takeover

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On genocide, both groups, (HAMAS and Israel) both advocate 'genocide' of each other, Hamas has it in the charter as you so eagerly pointed out, however in Israel, there is a systimatic effort to dehumanize palestinians, and drive them off the land by force. On the issue of dehuminization, this occurs through forcing all palestinian-israelis to wear a special ID card identifying them as such, and drive with special liscense plate identifying them as such. Let us not forget Meir's famous quote about what more are palestinians then beasts on two legs. Also Israel forcfully takes land from farmers (in a direct breach of the geneva conventions, and gived it to religious zealots who then carry around automatic weapons and shoot at palestinian towns, in 'response' to gunmen who never materialize, and the settelers are then never punished by israeli law, unless you consider community service punishment for pistol-whipping an 11-year old to death. Also, Israel excersises a policy of continued deportation with regards to well, pretty much everyone.

 

On the whole legitamacy of the state, we cannot hold them as the same, the geneva conventions have seperate laws, but still as strong for non-state actors as those in the OT. We must treat them seperatly b/c they are seperate and Israel is not engaged in a state of "Total War" which means you are fighting for your survival and hence, anything and everything goes. However Israel is not in a state of "Total War" in its occupation of the territories, and so it held to higher standards. This is a perfectly legitimate policy i may add.

On the last post, there is only infighting, fatah only stands because of israeli and western aid, like i said before, if the two sides were supported equally, then HAMAS would be in total control of the goverment. And of a land that is not even theirs? How dare you say that, what country was created out of an arab majority and had to have millions come from all around the world to build a demographic majority. Before 1948, Palestine was an Arab territory, and it still should be an arab country.

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The land isn't theirs?

 

Besides, I guess you must be anti-American because originally WE couldn't control our PERMENANT government of the land that WASN'T really ours. (I.E. The civil war)

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How can Palestine possibly deserve a state when there is too much infighting to even control a small, provisional government, of a land that isn't even theirs?

 

there you go again with those childish palestinians... they just must not be as civil as the jooz.

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there you go again with those childish palestinians... they just must not be as civil as the jooz.

 

You're being asinine. The Hamas takeover clearly demonstrates that none of the militant groups has any clue what the hell is going on. And please, stop trying to pin the Palestinian Dehumanization on the Israelis. Lord knows the Jordanians did it. Hell, the Radical Islamic Palestinians are killing the Non-Radical Islamic Palestinians.

 

If the Palestinians really want peace, as so many of their apologists claim they do, the pragmatic thing is to not disturb the Israeli bear. By this point, if I'm Palestinian, I know that the IDF can and will kick my ass up and down the strip, and happily continue to do so.

 

It is not about the state, it is about totalitarianism and genocide. If it were really about the state, the PA could start by trying to stop the infighting, then proceeding to build SOME KIND of infrastructure. I know that the Israelis make this difficult, but any attempt at nation building by the PA would be a step in the right direction. Also, they should probably lose their Mickey Mouse character.

 

More reasons that it's not about a state:

 

The original UN Security Council plan called for a Palestinian state, which the Palestinian Government quickly opposed. The Jews were happy to allow the existence of a Palestinian state, the only problem was that the Palestinians weren't happy to allow the existence of a Jewish state. I'm not being Zionist, I'm stating that this issue is not about statehood, it is about Antisemitism. Hell, Israel wouldn't even own a lot of its formerly Muslim land if other Arab nations had not attempted to destroy the Jewish state. The Egyptians have apparently figured out that the existence of Israel doesn't harm the Arabs in the area, and maybe it's just a matter of time until the rest of the region comes around.

 

I'm not a Neo-Zionist. I believe that if the Palestinian people had the means, then they could, and should manage a nation. But, Hamas needs to be resolved (Genocide is never a good policy when you're striving for legitimacy). The PLO needs to cease and desist all terrorist operations, and the PA needs to maintain peaceful order in its own borders. Only when the Palestinians have squared away their own internal problems can there ever be a resolution.

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people like retired make it impossible to discuss israel/palestine rationally. in his mind, if you make a comment even mildly supportive of israel you are immediately complicit with every single thing they've ever done and want to murder all palestinians. it's ridiculous.

 

i guess my point is if you want two hold to groups to the same standards, perhaps both should have the same means, like a state.

what standards are we talking about? israel would be just as deserving of criticism if they brainwashed their children to think that killing themselves to murder innocent people was a glorious action. it must be nice to alter the terms of a debate as you like.

 

what part of the israeli genocide is made up?

jenin, for example. but that's not what i meant. my point was that most of your posts here are just vague smears about "israeli genocide" and "zionist murderers" that sound nice and inflammatory but mean shit.

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