Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
OddBall

No School Uniforms in Public Schools

Recommended Posts

Hello again everyone. This is my second debate, and I will advocate a strong argument that student uniforms should not be implemented in public schools. I worked very hard to scrounge up the needed evidence, so I hope I get a good debate going to make it worthwhile.

 

One of the common proposals to improve the public education system is to require that students wear school uniforms, and currently, at least some medium to large public school districts require school uniforms. The PSUD serving around (1) 20,000 enrolled students (2) has enforced mandatory uniforms since 2003, and the LBUSD, (3) the third largest school district in california with around 100,000 students, (4) did so in 1994.

 

(1) http://www.pasadena.k12.ca.us/index.php?topic=Parent

(2) http://www.pusd.us/filemgmt_data/files/demographics-05-06.pdf

(3) http://www.lbusd.k12.ca.us/perscomm/Web/PDF-Employment%20

Application/Administrative%20Coordinator%20-%20Facilities%20

Dev%20&%20Plan%205054.pdf

(4) http://www.lbusd.k12.ca.us/parents/pdfs/GuidelinesEnglish.pdf

 

This shows that in California, proposals to ennact school uniform policies are seriously considered. Furthermore, in general there seems to be strong support for School uniforms, as indicated by a (5) 31% approval rating among approxiamately 10,000 online poll-takers collected in 2005.

 

A number of reasons are offered why school uniforms should be made mandatory. In particular, (6) proponents of uniforms claim that they will lower drug use, reduce problematic behavior, lower truancy, and raise academic achievement. However, (6) school uniforms exhibit either a zero or negative correlation with all of these four points, meaning that they are ineffective in obtaining the desired results. If the intention of mandatory uniform polcies is to improve student behavior and scores, then school uniforms do not work and should not be implemented in public school districts.

 

(5) http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/static/poll_results.tmpl/CA

(6) http://www.members.tripod.com/rockqu/uniform.htm

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how you take a 31% approval rating for school uniforms to warrant a claim of "strong support".....69% are either opposed or neutral????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...uniforms stop drug use?

you missed the point why we really need uniforms, to stop free expression of thought. thought is dangerous enough but if you let people express themselves... just think of the mess that would create--- people would not only have opinions but would also discuss and argue them, possibly even disagreeing with and debating certain government policies! Do you really want a world where kids think freely?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 31% approval rating is evidence of strong support. It means one out of three people is in favor of school uniforms. It is possible for there to be both strong support in favor and agains uniforms. This is because strong support is not synonymous with "overwhelming" or "majority" support. Strong support means a large portion of the population is in favor.

 

RedLeader said -

 

you missed the point why we really need uniforms, to stop free expression of thought. thought is dangerous enough but if you let people express themselves... just think of the mess that would create--- eople would not only have opinions but would also discuss and argue them, possibly even disagreeing with and debating certain government policies! Do you really want a world where kids think freely?

 

Rebuttal -

 

This is a concesion that uniforms do not work to improve the behavior and academic achievement of students and should not be implemented for those reasons.

 

Have I won the debate? Is this the best that people are going to offer? It seems there is no significant opposition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A 31% approval rating is evidence of strong support. It means one out of three people is in favor of school uniforms. It is possible for there to be both strong support in favor and agains uniforms. This is because strong support is not synonymous with "overwhelming" or "majority" support. Strong support means a large portion of the population is in favor.

so does bush, with 29% approval ratings, have "strong support?

 

i <3 you oddball

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole purpose of school unfiorms is to kick out the trouble makers from school if not limit them down to a minority. For instance in Dallas, Texas they started enforcing the standardized dress, and got many kids who were nothing but trouble to move to another school district, thus improving their situation. The students however did trickle down to other communities and schools such as Crowley, Burleson etc, and are now causing problems at those schools. Hence why the school boards are considering standardized dress for those school districts now too.

Their intention is in no way to limit the voice of the student, and I think a fashion statement isn't always nesscarry for us to be heard. And in fairness of the teachers, why not consider of all the issues they have to deal with and the fact that we, the students out number them at least 10 to 1 in most areas if not more. I mean we can say we as debaters don't agree because it harms our ability to speak, but I then say look at debate rounds. Unless it's a lax tournament judges usually prefer that you be well dressed, and look decent,and we seem to be some of the most outspoke characters in a almost standardized dress. We can't nesscarrily say because we don't get to wear our 50 cent shirts or our designer brand clothes that our voice is being stripped. But we can realise teenagers and kids in general are destructive and very absorbed in the idea of this rebelious ideology. So I think it's only fair that schools try and find solutions. Even though they will never openly admit to wanting to kick kids out of school.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RedLeader said -

 

"so does bush, with 29% approval ratings, have "strong support?"

 

Reply -

 

Yes, he does, however he has even stronger opposition. Just curious, are you familiar with the concept of tugg-of-war? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The whole purpose of school unfiorms is to kick out the trouble makers from school if not limit them down to a minority. For instance in Dallas, Texas they started enforcing the standardized dress, and got many kids who were nothing but trouble to move to another school district, thus improving their situation.

 

Yeah, locking troubled kids into a cycle of poverty starting in sixth, seventh grade is MUCH more efficient than waiting until they're twenty or so. Also, whose situation was improved? Clearly not the kids', so I'm going to assume that you mean the school's. What purpose, then, is public schooling, after we kick out all the kids who need it most?

 

The students however did trickle down to other communities and schools such as Crowley, Burleson etc, and are now causing problems at those schools. Hence why the school boards are considering standardized dress for those school districts now too.

 

Oh good! An ever-expanding cycle of standardization and disciplinization. Sounds delightful. And efficient. I bet it's extra-helpful to the students!

 

Their intention is in no way to limit the voice of the student, and I think a fashion statement isn't always nesscarry for us to be heard. And in fairness of the teachers, why not consider of all the issues they have to deal with and the fact that we, the students out number them at least 10 to 1 in most areas if not more.

 

Great warrants! And English grammar! In fairness of the teachers! Who knew! I didn't! What does this mean? God only knows!

 

I mean we can say we as debaters don't agree because it harms our ability to speak, but I then say look at debate rounds. Unless it's a lax tournament judges usually prefer that you be well dressed, and look decent,and we seem to be some of the most outspoke characters in a almost standardized dress.

 

Yes, school IS just like a debate tournament! And we are pretty outspoke.

 

We can't nesscarrily say because we don't get to wear our 50 cent shirts or our designer brand clothes that our voice is being stripped. But we can realise teenagers and kids in general are destructive and very absorbed in the idea of this rebelious ideology. So I think it's only fair that schools try and find solutions. Even though they will never openly admit to wanting to kick kids out of school.

 

I, for one, have been enlightened. Who knew that teenagers and kids in general were destructive and very absorbed in this rebelious ideology? Not I, that's who! I hate it when I'm very absorbed in a rebelious ideology! Makes me sick!

 

And, MY VOICE IS BEING STRIPPED BECAUSE I DON'T GET TO WEAR MY 50 CENT SHIRT.

 

 

So, in conclusion,

 

PWND

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the fact of the matter is, school uniforms have been shown not to be effective in improving the behavior of children according to any of the criteria proposed by uniform advocates. They simply do not work, and this is not a good reason to implement them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I read, it appeared that you were arguing against school uniforms. And maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the point of being devil's advocate to promote an unpopular view and spark debate?

From the replies, that doesn't seem like an unpopular view at all.

...maybe I'm missing something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a devil's advocate thread. I am actually opposed to school uniforms. Although originally I was going to pretend to be in favor to get a good debate going, after reviewing the evidence I found that it was untenable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I had an in-class debate about this several years ago... and these were my main args against it:

 

A) It's public education, and thus each child in this country has a right to it, and they can't deny them that right based on what they wear so long as it doesn't violate basic good taste.

B) the infamous "band-aid" argument- its an attempted panacea for much larger problems

C) Not proven effective

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, locking troubled kids into a cycle of poverty starting in sixth, seventh grade is MUCH more efficient than waiting until they're twenty or so. Also, whose situation was improved? Clearly not the kids', so I'm going to assume that you mean the school's. What purpose, then, is public schooling, after we kick out all the kids who need it most?

 

This post struck my as logically inefficient. If a student would abandon their possibility at having a successful future over uniforms, then there are much bigger issues. When we get into such a tiff over being asked to dress in a certain manner for eight hours a day, in an equal manner, what have we come to? Coercion in education only gets you so far. If the objective is higher efficiency in schools, then mission accomplished. When students drop out of school over such a trivial matter, they will suffer the consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The whole purpose of school unfiorms is to kick out the trouble makers from school if not limit them down to a minority. For instance in Dallas, Texas they started enforcing the standardized dress, and got many kids who were nothing but trouble to move to another school district, thus improving their situation.

 

This is what was said.

 

If a student would abandon their possibility at having a successful future over uniforms, then there are much bigger issues. When we get into such a tiff over being asked to dress in a certain manner for eight hours a day, in an equal manner, what have we come to? Coercion in education only gets you so far. If the objective is higher efficiency in schools, then mission accomplished. When students drop out of school over such a trivial matter, they will suffer the consequences.

 

This is what you said.

 

Read the two.

 

Then explain in 300 words or less why what YOU said makes no sense.

 

Discuss.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

uniforms are said to be productive due to

less money for parents

less debate on cloths and diffusion of cliques

less trouble with dress codes

 

while all of that is false

causes parents to then buy uniform plus more cloths for kids after school

and students will find more extream ways to express themselves, hairstyles,tattoos,gauges stuff like that. and every morning they will have twice as much trouble with people not following the dress code

i go to burleson and its true lets say since dallas and fortworth got standardized dress the number of minorities and troublemakes has gone way up causing are school to get more strict

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Coming from a school with a very strict dress code, we need to wear a tie, the behavior is more appropriate. When we have a dress-down day, the behavior is worse. Strictly on behavior, uniforms are necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

way to bring back a thread that has been dead for 2 years.

 

and NickGill, people behave worse because everything is different. My school doesnt have uniforms. If we were to implement such a policy, it would fail miserably. My school is a very well behaved school, but kids would protest. Adding uniforms would probably make it worse here.

 

Its not a matter of whether or not it would be good, but in some places, it would just not work.

 

Heck, last year, my school started random drug testing. It was a very bitter 6 months of resistance before most people started to give in.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize this is an entirely arbitrary post contributing to a necroed thread, but in Chicago Public Schools, on average, schools without uniforms have statistically significant higher ACT scores on average.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I realize this is an entirely arbitrary post contributing to a necroed thread, but in Chicago Public Schools, on average, schools without uniforms have statistically significant higher ACT scores on average.

 

Causation or correlation? The kind of schools where the safety issues (used as rationale for uniforms) do not exist would probably have higher ACT scores anyway.

 

(Just for the record, I oppose uniforms, despite having worked in precisely the type of school where such things are often considered.)

 

Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...