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jmc_va

Tidewater 2007

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per the email i got from jackson yesterday, he will be president of the tdl for one more year. so we can all wipe the worry-sweat from our brows and sigh a collective sigh of relief.

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per the email i got from jackson yesterday, he will be president of the tdl for one more year. so we can all wipe the worry-sweat from our brows and sigh a collective sigh of relief.

 

The latest email indicates that she really is making a play at the position for next year. [insert Deity] help us.

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The latest email indicates that she really is making a play at the position for next year. [insert Deity] help us.

 

we're not talking about the same person.

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there's no drama. but contemporary-loving programs are a dying breed in our area. heck, they're a dying breed across virginia. the latest vhsl rules clinic will feature a questionnaire about how to increase participation in debate. the options are, basically, have coaches work harder, get rid of classical, or get rid of contemporary. which option do you think is going to be the most popular? my suggestion... the same one i made when posed with an entirely different question last year... is to add public forum, get rid of classical, and rename contemporary. maybe we could call it, i don't know, policy debate? that would put virginia back in sync with the national circuit, the nfl, the cfl, etc. but no one listens to me. i'm thinking in a few years' time, vhsl debate will be l-d, public forum, and classical. if that's the case, you know the tdl won't offer contemporary. it's probably inevitable that contemporary will die off in this area... but some people would like to see it happen sooner than others.

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So I'm doing this project for AP psych. I'm supposed to write a dialogue between a group of mothers with Sigmund Freuds mom being one of the mothers. The subject is "my child is better than yours." Besides the obvious "my son keeps following me and touching himself" any other jokes I can put in to make this humorous.

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So I'm doing this project for AP psych. I'm supposed to write a dialogue between a group of mothers with Sigmund Freuds mom being one of the mothers. The subject is "my child is better than yours." Besides the obvious "my son keeps following me and touching himself" any other jokes I can put in to make this humorous.

"my son gave your sons cocaine"

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John, not sure about that. There as no movement by the VHSL to add Pub Forum this year, or next...we are thinking about hosting an independent "state championship" tournament in Pub Forum this year..but haven't decided yet.

 

I would hope that contemporary never goes away - but with the declining participating in contemporary at the state level (it will be very doubtful if Yorktown will field any policy this year, let alone contemp policy as I'm no longer the coach of policy there) it seems like it will be eliminated. Add to that the current VHSL advisor for debate's hatred of policy, and you have a perfect storm to brush the event aside altogether.

 

The good news, though, is that Classic at the VHSL is mostly just slow contemp. I mean the final round in classic last year came down to conditionality bad - with the 2AR going the full 5 on the issue..the found of Classic was present and he was disgusted, as Classic was never meant to be that type of debate...ah well!!:)

 

Duane

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you all should keep contemporary debating so you can come debate for jmu for college and finally get involved in some real debates.

 

just my thoughts.

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kaitlyn - i agree with you, believe me. i've always thought that one of the duties of a high school coach is to prepare their kids for debating in college. some people don't agree.

 

duane - i wasn't saying i was expecting public forum to supplant policy any time soon. i just see it coming down the pike. i think we'll be lucky if contemporary lasts another couple years. i know classical has become slow contemp in a lot of ways at the state level, but that cannot be said about our local league. in our area, persuasion trumps evidence in classical and theory arguments are wasted ink on the flow. assuming the judge flows, that is. how do rounds like that prep debaters for tournaments like jmu or gmu, much less harvard or bronx? once contemporary dies, where do i send my novices to get experience before sending them to invitationals? where do i send my more experienced debaters for good rounds without having to travel hundreds of miles and pay through the nose for the privilege? i'm just bemoaning the fact that on all those questionnaires going out at the rules clinic this year, far more people are going to check the box marked "get rid of contemporary debate" than the one marked "coaches should work harder to increase participation". too many coaches are in this for the stipend, not the activity and, quite frankly, that's one of the major reasons participation continues to decline.

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so, what's the TDL schedule? i don't think i can make it to the december one if its when i think it is, our fall semester runs late this year :(

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John..trust me, we're on the same side. If I added up all the money I've spent on policy vs. all the money I've made on policy...sane adults would cry at the balance sheet...wait..my wife has....We need to do more..that's for sure..to increase participation...but how do we do that when kids are so overburdened these days, and you tell them that in addition to all the other stuff they do..they have do x more to be good at policy.

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i wrote a response on monday and the site timed out while i was posting. i'll try and remember what i said.

 

i'm definitely not lumping you in with the folks on the other side of the fence, duane. you know i respect the program you built at yorktown and i know how hard you had to work to get it to that level.

 

seeing all those kids competing at wake this weekend, i'm pretty sure that as long as nature and nurture keep coming together to produce type "a" personalities, there will always be kids who, once they know policy and the national circuit are out there, will do whatever it takes to be successful. i'd also like to think that the debaters who won the public forum and lincoln-douglas divisions had to work just as hard as those that won policy. i really think it's more a question of opportunity than workload. do you really think that if there were 20 or 30 coaches in the state actively encouraging policy debate and participting in national circuit tournaments policy would be "dying" in virginia? there are really just a handful of us left. this problem is the coaches, not the kids. and it's not going to get any better if the league keeps framing the issue as "policy is dying, lincoln-douglas and student congress are growing by leaps and bounds, and public forum is this shiny new thing on the horizon that everyone loves". what new coach hearing that is going to even consider policy? and so its death becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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HI, well..sadly YOrktown policy is RIP for this year. The new coach stated yesterday that if there was any interest in policy, she'd be glad to cover the basics of it this year with an eye to maybe competing next year!!:( 8 years of work, simply thrown down the drain....very sad..

 

I agree, John..I really do....I'm not sure why more coaches don't want to work, travel, etc.....It's a mystery to me....I think it's because people hear Policy and equate that with "Work" and it scares them....You and I, and Ron Richards at Broad Run, are probably the last three die-hard, hands-on coaches in the state of Virginia for policy, now that Mr. Jackson is leaving Princess Anne...very sad....our society is shrinking..but we could have a meeting in a canoe!!:)

 

Duane

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COME TO UVA's INVITATIONAL NOVEMBER 22nd! ONE DAY: OFFERS POLICY, LD, PF, CONGRESS, and SPEECH. SEE MA TOURNEY INVITES FOR MORE INFO.

 

MORE INFORMATION IS COMING SOON. CONTACT ME FOR FOR DETAILS!! ELM9J AT VIRGINIA.EDU

 

:) :) Thanks!

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Sorry, Elizabeth, that's the same weekend as Villiger for us, but we wish you well. The UVA tournament was giving JMU and GMU a run for their money way back when. It's wonderful that you're resurrecting it.

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damn, i remember when we tried to go to UVA and they CANCELED it :(

 

life tip: don't turn 21, it's bad for your bank account. and your GPA.

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TDL Schedule, as promised:

 

TDL 1...October 18...Floyd Kellam High School...Virginia Beach

TDL 2...November 15...Hickory High School...Chesapeake

TDL 3...December 6...Phoebus High School...Hampton

TDL 4...January 17...Frank W. Cox High School...Virginia Beach

TDL 5...February 7...First Colonial High School...Virginia Beach

 

Some interesting developments:

 

At the coaches' meeting held Saturday, September 20th, at Kellam High School in Virginia Beach, several changes were made to Tidewater Debate League rules and policies.

 

LINCOLN-DOUGLAS: No changes were made.

POLICY: It was decided to eliminate the distinction between contemporary and classic policy debate. There will now be a single category of policy debate which will adhere to neither contemporary nor classic rules. Rather, it will be left to the judge's discretion to determine how each round should be run. The judge will be required to inform the debaters of his or her judging paradigm before the round begins and the debaters will adapt to that paradigm or be prepared to lose the ballot. TDL tournaments will offer two divisions of policy debate, varsity and open. The varsity division will be for debaters and judges with experience in national-circuit style debate or a desire to gain such experience, while the open division will be for judges and debaters of any experience level who are less comfortable with speed, theory arguments, and open cross-examination. Counterplans and kritiks will be allowed in both divisions. Schools may enter up to 6 varsity policy teams and 10 open policy teams in each TDL tournament.

 

PUBLIC FORUM: It was decided that the TDL will include public forum debate as soon as it is logistically feasible to do so.

 

STUDENT CONGRESS: It was decided to change the scoring range on each ballot area from 1-6 to 12-20 in order to reduce the likelihood of ties. The topic areas for each tournament's session will be decided at the tournament preceding it. Each school may enter up to 15 student legislators in each TDL tournament.

Edited by jmc_va

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Does anyone know if Boston University has a reasonable debate program?

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I've never heard of them having a debate program. I think the only debate programs in Boston are BC and Harvard.

 

John..sounds like your League has made some positive changes in regards to Policy..hope that more schools than just Kempsville enter the Varsity division.

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It was an interesting meeting, but the change got lots of support from Cox, Princess Anne, and First Colonial (they're starting a policy program there this year).

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no TDLs for me this year :( i'm still in class on december 6th and i have to go back early for sorority rush for the january one.

 

teerz, i cryz them.

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i felt awkward today when someone in my communications class saw the WAKE DEBATE sticker on my notebook and said, "I didn't know debate had gone to sleep..."

 

civilians are weird.

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