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Plan II vs. UNT Scholars

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can't speak from personal experience, but the people I know that have gone to UNT scholars have had nothing but good things to say about it.

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plan2 exmplifies the K debater. its a laid back style, of a camp lots of practice debate, and very critical in nature. The staff is porbally one of the best in the country, regardless of lab. Some negative lab leaders (chooseing your neg position to cut ((you learn it hella well)) is really sweet too) Nick Miller and Blake ( both for 1st round bids, semis NDT winning CEDA, 10th seed of the NDT and let the Emory HH advance over them in doubles to win the tournmant) Nate Gorelick and Paul Flaig were another. (CEDA champion 02 I think, I forget all o Pauls background, but badass) Sarah Holbrook and Teddy (won ceda twice I think, judge of the year fromthe NDT, was in outrounds of the NDT((forget how far)) and great teacher)

 

Not many camps have the depth that the UTNIF does in coaching staff, Jarius and McBride also teach there. I'd give a serious vote to UTNIF.

I concur.....speaking from experience i think there are only very few camps in the country that are better than UT....and if u like a laid back environment a lot better than there is NO better camp than UT....the staff is excellent, the people are real cool, and the staff actually work to teach u the arguments IN DEPTH....after my experiences wit the foucault lab my understanding of critical theory and foucaultean thought increased exponentially....my vote is for Plan II

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So for Plan II you get to choose your own aff/neg lab? Are those lab leaders different than the regular Plan II lab leaders?

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So for Plan II you get to choose your own aff/neg lab? Are those lab leaders different than the regular Plan II lab leaders?

 

For the item titled just "Plan II" on the page there is no specific aff lab where you write an aff, however you are placed in an aff theory lab based on a diagnostic debate, for the one titled "Plan II experienced" the lab leaders pitch aff ideas (last year there were 2 labs) and then you basically choose, both of the camps get to choose neg labs from about 8 choices after neg lab leaders pitch ideas, however you do not always get your first choice (the neg lab leaders are all of the lab leaders at the camp at that times, but for aff lab they are the leaders listed under each part of the site for that particular part of the camp)

Hope that helps!

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unt scholars

 

i cant speak about plan 2 (i have never been there), but UNT Scholars has been great the last two summers.

 

the staff is fantastic: for the seniors lab its brian lain (head coach at UNT, previously taught at emory and other places), calum matheson (1st speaker basically everywhere his senior year, finals of ceda, overall great debate mind) and jonathan paul (won the ndt!).

 

the way its set up is also very helpful with a diverse schedule every day involving lectures, practice debates, and lab time.

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I'm another vote for UNT--we've sent debaters to plan 2 before and they were not huge fans of the structure of the camp. Although I love Austin, and UT the camp apparently has a really laid back structure (that for some people slashes productivity)

 

UNT is a winner:

1. Amazing Staff (as drew has already said above)

2. UNT is just a cool place--good dorms, nice campus, nice classrooms where labs are, all the people are really helpful around the whole place.

3. Practice debates-UNT scholars has a SERIOUS number of practice debates so you can get more experience executing the arguments you've learned.

4. Argument Diversity--I've been at scholars the past few years and it amazes me how knowledgable the lab leaders are about EVERYTHING. You get a whole variety of education about CPs, DAs, K's, Case, and T. The lab focus is not really pre-determined. The arguments that the students think up make it on to the list of assignments to cut. Everyone gets a chance to do something they're really interested in.

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Plan II

 

I attended the UTNIF for three years and the camp truly improved my debate. Conceded the structure is laid back, this shouldn't affect your productivity. You are there to learn about debate and cut evidence you will use during the year, you should not be smoking/drinking/hooking up with other debaters/etc.

 

The UTNIF staff is also amazing. Jarius Grove and Brian McBride run the camp and if you want to learn about any kritikal/philosophical author, just ask. There's also Sherry Hall, Teddy Albiniak, Sara Holbrook, Nate Gorelick, the amazing Blake Johnson, Paul Flaig, and Ricky Garner. Three of the lab leaders are CEDA champions, which is the largest tournament for college debaters.

 

Also, if anyone is considering UT as a college, you can get a great look at the campus proper, buildings where you will have classes, and one of the nation's largest university libraries. Plus you get to spend the summer in Austin! There's a ton of shopping, music, fabulous 24 hour food (like Tiff's Treats!), and other entertainment.

 

If anyone wants to email me to ask about camp, my email is lizblumberg@mail.utexas.edu and my aim is Lizz1287

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You are there to learn about debate and cut evidence you will use during the year, you should not be smoking/drinking/hooking up with other debaters/etc.

You're such a prude, Liz.

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UTNIF, but that's just me.

 

This is the text of a fairly exhaustive facebook message I sent to Natalie from Hays in response to her asking about UTNIF. Slightly edited.

 

"I did the mixed six-week program. It doesn't officially exist, but they'll probably let you if you're interested. I did the first Marathon session and the second Experienced session. I thought it was a fairly good mix.

 

Things I liked:

 

1. It's just really fun. The lab leaders are all fun people, the kids are fun, discipline is fairly relaxed. (By that I mean as long as you are discreet. If you do stuff like have a hobo buy you four liters of TAAKA vodka, Jairus Grove will come down on you like a ton of bricks.) They also have pretty relaxed rules about gender-mixing (some camps don't allow you on the same floor. UT you can be in the same room, if the door is open, which is just sort of necessary to have a good social life).

 

2. The staff is excellent. They're all really, really qualified people with in-depth knowledge of the args. Many of them are also excellent strategists (Sherry Hall, Jairus, Brian McBride) some of whom were crucial in the development of various important args.

 

3. Great labs- they're very well run, and tend in general towards understanding the arg rather than card-cutting.

 

3. You get a lot of debate experience. If you do the marathon, especially, however, in each case you get a whole lot of practice time with highly qualified critics. They'll also listen to rebuttal redos etc.

 

Didn't like as much:

 

1. Little bit TOO laid back. If you are the type of person who isn't self-motivated in terms of debate but still wants to get better, it's probably not the best place for you. Lab leaders are always available for help and are usually enthusiastic about aiding you to understand something, but they will most definitively NOT go out of their way to MAKE you work/learn. This can be good or bad. I think I probably benefited from it, purely because it leaves the lab heads free to talk with people who actually want to get better.

 

2. VERY VERY K-ORIENTED. While this might be something you're looking for, it's certainly not a place to learn the intricacies of the heg debate or anything like that. The staff is VERY heavily weighted towards the leftist end of debate args, which ends up being almost exclusively critical stances. There are a few holdouts like Sherry Hall of Harvard, who has coached policy teams with a fairly great record and others in the past (Brian Peterson and Mariesa Hermann, but they aren't coming back this summer) but they may have new staff members who are up on the right-wing args.

 

hope that helped some.

 

All in all, I'd recommend it, but keep the few caveats in mind."

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We've decided to go to Plan II - partly because my parents won't pay for Scholars - so that made the decision easy.

 

Thanks for everyone's input and I hope to see anyone else going to Plan II/UTNIF there.

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