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Tomak

[AFF] Vaccines

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hey tomak, what would the plan text be for this aff? I am curious as to how you address the issue of new babies being born? Would we continually pour money into this region until they would be able to get on their feet?

 

Also on the vaccination process are we sending certified individuals over there or are we just simply sending the vaccines?

 

And I may be reiterating what someone else has previously posted but if we are sending individuals through what means is the USFG doing this? Are we coercing them? Incentives?

 

Thanks for the time tomak. I started reading your links and I think if we can get those couple points that I posted addressed this could be an awesome case.

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what would the plan text be for this aff?
As always, it would depend on your inherency story. I'm embarrassed to say I haven't done enough research to give you a better answer than that. :(

 

I am curious as to how you address the issue of new babies being born? Would we continually pour money into this region until they would be able to get on their feet?
This shouldn't be a big problem. Even if vaccinations completely cease, you still get good solvency many years down the road. With a sufficient percentage of the population vaccinated, nobody gets sick any more because the disease can't spread. Google for "herd immunity." Also, there are some diseases that could be permanently eradicated if you vaccinate everyone, like what we did with smallpox.

 

On the other hand, there's very little disadvantage to just funding your plan for decades into the future. Vaccines are cheap.

 

Also on the vaccination process are we sending certified individuals over there or are we just simply sending the vaccines?
To get good solvency you will need to provide assistance to administer and monitor the vaccination efforts. As I mentioned above, this can be done smoothly with the cooperation of the WHO and NGOs.

 

And I may be reiterating what someone else has previously posted but if we are sending individuals through what means is the USFG doing this? Are we coercing them? Incentives?
Some USFG staff, mostly from USAID, the CDC, and the State Department. Most manpower would come from government contracts, grants and partnerships.

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I like this case. Some of the vaccines are pennies a shot. Also, there's an advantage to having people come in for free vaccines, because then health care workers can take a quick look. A lot of simple things get fixed on the spot, or advice is given to take care of them. It works as a preventative medicine advantage. As for keeping track of who got their shots, it's possible that some won't come in to get them, and thus are still subject to getting the disease. But that likelihood is lessened when more of the people around them are vaccinated (this is what Tomak was talking about with the herd.) If someone isn't sure if they've been vaccinated, it's easy to test to see if they have antibodies.

 

Strategically, it plays well with a variety of judges. It has big advantages that anyone can understand.

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I think running it through the CDC would probably be better than NGOs just because of the not-part-of the USFG T

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The CDC doesn't have much staff for that sort of thing. Most of their activities are in the US. Almost all foreign assistance to Africa is funnelled either through foreign governments or NGOs. Very few foreign health workers are on USFG payroll.

 

We can have the T discussion elsewhere, but in order for any case to get solvency next year, you need NGOs. It's just how PHA works these days.

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I'm thinking about running my own immunization aff, but I'm not sure about which advantages I want to claim off of it or how. I would like to claim racism, but I don't see how immunizations is going to solve for that really. Any ideas on racism or other advantages I could claim.

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You can pretty much claim any diseases you prevent as advs, and that includes polio etc, you can claim soft power but the disease advs are pretty strong.

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racism/discrimination could work in the context of who gets the immunizations and who doesn't

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I can't stress this enough, Poverty. Progreba (the framer) wanted the topic to have at least something to due with poverty. If you solve for poverty, you get huge advatages, easily spiking out of budget and alot of other DAs

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Hey Tomak, I kind of like the idea of the aff but I have some questions but what you think would be some fitting advantages for one of these immunization advantages. I have some ideas, but maybe I'll ask you about those later in a private message. Thank you for any help

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Do you mean other than the half-dozen advantages (disease pandemics, hospital pressure, poverty, pharmaceutical company growth, globalization, soft power, dependency) that have been mentioned already?

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I think it's time for you kids to start using your imagination and your library. I've helped enough here. :)

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I think it's time for you kids to start using your imagination and your library. I've helped enough here. :)

 

hahah. well anyone who is researching this case. u would have to add another plank to ur case in order to solve for this. if you read how vaccines work, it will only solve for ppl who havent extracted the disease so if u have the disease then the vaccines cant do much. In this case, your inherency would be used against u esp those cards that states, 100 million ppl are suffering from aids or however many, which could be solved through other mechanisms that could be the CP. perm would solve but it could come down to theory as well.

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hahah. well anyone who is researching this case. u would have to add another plank to ur case in order to solve for this. if you read how vaccines work, it will only solve for ppl who havent extracted the disease so if u have the disease then the vaccines cant do much. In this case, your inherency would be used against u esp those cards that states, 100 million ppl are suffering from aids or however many, which could be solved through other mechanisms that could be the CP. perm would solve but it could come down to theory as well.

 

I don't really understand what it means to "solve" for people who have already contracted the disease. From what I know, the vast majority of diseases that are preventable with vaccines are viruses, which are incurable when contracted. If you're thinking treatment-wise, though, I would imagine that the aforementioned hospital pressure advantage would solve.

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I don't really understand what it means to "solve" for people who have already contracted the disease. From what I know, the vast majority of diseases that are preventable with vaccines are viruses, which are incurable when contracted. If you're thinking treatment-wise, though, I would imagine that the aforementioned hospital pressure advantage would solve.

 

hmm actually no. The intial idea of vaccines was targeted toward infectious disease because they dont evolve in short time frame as compared to HIV or bird flu. These viruses can change really fast, so there are several strains of viruses. For example, the most dangerous strain in bird flu in H5N1 becuase humans have never been exposed to any virus like that. But what I meant was that if you already have the virus in your system through any means i.e. vertical tranmissions, and other vectors, you cant really treat it with vaccines. Because vaccines cure viruses and infectious diseases through secondary immune response system, so if you already have the virus then your primary immune system has already been initiated and fails to "solve" aka cure for it. As for the hospital treatment, I am not exactly sure what you are doing there, if you explain it then maybe I can help more. Nevertheless, there are two ways you can solve for status quo 1) let everyone die who has already got the disease and from the statistics I have read that is quite a huge number and vaccines cannot save them or 2) you fund for actual medicines/treatment which cures viruses and diseases after you have gotten it, and in that case, you dont need vaccines because if we find out that somebody has it, we can just give them that medicine or treatment or watever and everybody will be happy.

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You really don't understand that the plan isn't intended to make people who are sick better, that's not the plan's job. The resolution says that we need to increase Public health assistance, not to make people better. Using the philosophy of herd immunity and the repetition of the plan every few years is what causes the biggest change in public health, which would not occur immediately. inklings says that this will cause everyone who currently has the disease will die. This is not true depending on the case for a number of reasons. 1) With a disease like meningitis, the reason it is racking up the casualties that it is is because the regains it is infecting are trapped in perpetual epidemics. By vaccinating now, we save lives more in the long run, and ones who die from these diseases will die will be few (comparatively) 2) The mindset you are acting in is one where the US government will not run any more programs to cure the diseases you are talking about. The US is working on eliminating these diseases with plans in existence, and because vaccines are so low cost it would be easy for people to continue these programs. 3) I have never faced any hardcore theory against a perm, and I doubt that many people run it anyway

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You really don't understand that the plan isn't intended to make people who are sick better, that's not the plan's job. The resolution says that we need to increase Public health assistance, not to make people better. Using the philosophy of herd immunity and the repetition of the plan every few years is what causes the biggest change in public health, which would not occur immediately. inklings says that this will cause everyone who currently has the disease will die. This is not true depending on the case for a number of reasons. 1) With a disease like meningitis, the reason it is racking up the casualties that it is is because the regains it is infecting are trapped in perpetual epidemics. By vaccinating now, we save lives more in the long run, and ones who die from these diseases will die will be few (comparatively) 2) The mindset you are acting in is one where the US government will not run any more programs to cure the diseases you are talking about. The US is working on eliminating these diseases with plans in existence, and because vaccines are so low cost it would be easy for people to continue these programs. 3) I have never faced any hardcore theory against a perm, and I doubt that many people run it anyway

 

hahahha dude. wat the hell does healthcare means? watever, i understand ur defintion but thats a topicality issue. nevertheless, wat u r saying makes sense and is exactly my point. vaccines save ppl from getting disease in future so ppl who have AIDS right now hvae no solvency, whihc means that they will die without getting any "healtcare assistance". furthermore, if u read statistics, approximately 60 million or some number like that is infected. so 1 u have no solvency for these ppl. 2 vaccines also cause side reactions whihc means that no one in the future is guaranteed to be saved. 3) pretty much every fucking scientist out there is trying to find a cure for AIDS or rather a vaccines, but there have been none. there is actually one specific type of vaccines that i have read seems to work, but even that wont come into market until it gets approved but I do know an extra-T plank u can add to ur aff, which can solve for that. On your point 2, simply put, its retarded. It doenst even make sense. the only point u make is the low cost, there are only two types of vacciens that are low cost just bcs the way the produce it. your general vaccines which u found in ur CVS or walgreen are highly expensive. on your third point, watever, I guess u r a good theory debator.

HEXAGONSUN - my point for extra plank had nothing to do with beds. i was talking abt the ppl who wont be helped from vaccines. like william-stokes said that some ppl will die who already have the disease, I was talking abt them.

TOMAK - yeah i do know that the prevent from getting disease. sorry abt the confusion but thats wat i meant.

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hahahha dude. wat the hell does healthcare means? watever, i understand ur defintion but thats a topicality issue. nevertheless, wat u r saying makes sense and is exactly my point. vaccines save ppl from getting disease in future so ppl who have AIDS right now hvae no solvency, whihc means that they will die without getting any "healtcare assistance". furthermore, if u read statistics, approximately 60 million or some number like that is infected. so 1 u have no solvency for these ppl. 2 vaccines also cause side reactions whihc means that no one in the future is guaranteed to be saved. 3) pretty much every fucking scientist out there is trying to find a cure for AIDS or rather a vaccines, but there have been none. there is actually one specific type of vaccines that i have read seems to work, but even that wont come into market until it gets approved but I do know an extra-T plank u can add to ur aff, which can solve for that. On your point 2, simply put, is retarded. It doenst even make sense. the only point u make is the low cost, there are only two types of vacciens that are low cost just bcs the way the produce it. your general vaccines which u found in ur CVS or walgreen are highly expensive. on your third point, watever, I guess u r a good theory debator.

 

Follow the link under Tomak's first post. It says that vaccines have mild side effects and that they are one of the most cost-effective methods of health care. The plan is not trying to solve for the people who already have the disease we are vaccinating against, we are trying to prevent people getting it in the future. My second point says that the U.S goverment isn't ignoring the people with AIDS and malaria that our plan doesn't solve for, the US has other plans that address those problems. There are already vaccines for the diseases that we are solving for, like meningitis or Polio. We don't have to produce new vaccines for the plan to work, we aren't even trying to solve AIDS, so I still don't understand why you keep bring it up. Most cases won't be sending a assortment of vaccines, they will be vaccinating one specific disease. Those vaccines even if expensive (haven't done the reaserch) are cheap compared to the money some plans dish out. Also if your whole stradegy against this case relies on something that is stupid to run theory against, like a perm, Then you will lose with that strat maybe 90% of the time.

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On a vaccine case I would run:

 

Pharmacy DA

T - P.H.A.

Spending Trade Off DA

Corruption DA

 

and maybe more but I cant think right now.

 

The Pharm DA links hard to the aff though, plus could be more or less private health care rather than public with a few defenitions, spending trade off would work well against it because the onloy money that goes to those sorts of things are cut from other programs that do help, and the people wouldnt even get the aid in some countries due to corrupt government.

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