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Referendum CP

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Would anyone be able to help me find answers to A referendum CP? Or help me to answer it?

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1.point out that there has never been a national referencdum and it is not even legal, the constitution would have to be ammended to do this, so prove that it would take a few years to even make it legel, let alone enform the public soon enough about they issue so they can learn about it. Overall it would take at least a year but almost defaniatley more. The point out that this interum means that the CP doesnt gain the advantages of the plan for at least a few years (then read cards saying you impact will happen sooner than then if you have them)

 

2.And then perm it, multiple ways,

 

youll prolly want to

 

A. perm do the CP as its not really competitive, then do a

 

B. perm, pass the plan right away and when the ref system is available to be run (in a few years) but the plan through a binding referendum. There are several advantages to this

 

i. gets the interum advnatge between now and when the ref system is available

ii. if the net benefit is direct democracy good, (which is what it usually is) then you still capture this becasue you put it up to the public as soon ads you could and if they wanted to, they could vote to end the plan which means they still have the ultimate say.

 

 

3. read some pic (plan plus) theory

 

 

4. get some public would say no cards

 

 

5. read some impact turns to direct democracy

 

 

 

you can talk to me on AIM about this if u want, cuz i run this CP most rounds

 

 

aim: micabesaesgrande

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Here's some cards on it. usually the NB is ptx, which these cards answer. however this is for my courts aff. i have more answers if you use cognress.

 

 

Normal means for amendments is a massive time delay.

Richard Labunski, professor in the School of Journalism and Telecommunications at University of Kentucky. The Second Constitutional Convention: How The American People Can Take Back Their Government, 2000 p434

Has there been full and fair debate on the merits of the proposed amendment? Citizens for the Constitution divided consideration of any

 

CP links more than the plan – procedural disputes about how Amending the Constitution works would draw in the Court

Laurence Tribe, prof at Harvard Law. “Issues raised by requestion congress to call a constitutional convention, 10 Pac. L.J. 627. 1979

The primary threat posed by an Article V Convention is that of a confrontation between Congress and the Convention. Upon

 

Amending the constitution destroys judicial independence and links to more to their Court DAs

Kathleen M. Sullivan, Professor of Law, Stanford University. “Constitutional Constancy: Why Congress Should Cure Itself Of Amendment Fever,” Cardozo Law Review January, 1996 17 Cardozo L. Rev. 691

How have we managed to survive over two hundred years of social and technological change with only

 

A Con Con would undermine US soft power – the media hype would make us look like clowns

Schiafly 1999 (Phyllis graduate of Washington University, received her JD from Washington University Law School, and received her Master’s in Political Science from Harvard University, May, The Phyllis Schlafly Report: Vol 29, No 10, Is a Con Con hidden in Term Limits, http://www.eagleforum.org/psr /1996/may96/psrmay96.html)

Most of us have watched a Republican National Convention or a Democratic National Convention on television. We've seen the bedlam

 

ConCon sparks global secession

Gerald Benjamin and Thomas Gais, Interim Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at SUNY, New Paltz and Senior Fellow at the Rockefeller Institute. “Constitutional Conventionphobia,” Hofstra Law & Policy Symposium 1996

A national constitutional convention is threatening to the very utility of the physical object, the relic, as a

 

Amending the constitution causes spurs global secession

Gerald Benjamin and Thomas Gais, Interim Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at SUNY, New Paltz and Senior Fellow at the Rockefeller Institute. “Constitutional Conventionphobia,” Hofstra Law & Policy Symposium 1996

A national constitutional convention is threatening to the very utility of the physical object, the relic, as a symbol of national continuity.

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1.point out that there has never been a national referencdum and it is not even legal, the constitution would have to be ammended to do this, so prove that it would take a few years to even make it legel, let alone enform the public soon enough about they issue so they can learn about it. Overall it would take at least a year but almost defaniatley more. The point out that this interum means that the CP doesnt gain the advantages of the plan for at least a few years (then read cards saying you impact will happen sooner than then if you have them)

 

2.And then perm it, multiple ways,

 

youll prolly want to

 

A. perm do the CP as its not really competitive, then do a

 

B. perm, pass the plan right away and when the ref system is available to be run (in a few years) but the plan through a binding referendum. There are several advantages to this

 

i. gets the interum advnatge between now and when the ref system is available

ii. if the net benefit is direct democracy good, (which is what it usually is) then you still capture this becasue you put it up to the public as soon ads you could and if they wanted to, they could vote to end the plan which means they still have the ultimate say.

 

 

3. read some pic (plan plus) theory

 

 

4. get some public would say no cards

 

 

5. read some impact turns to direct democracy

 

 

 

you can talk to me on AIM about this if u want, cuz i run this CP most rounds

 

 

aim: micabesaesgrande

 

isn't there a nutjob democrat from Alaska who is like 80 and is running on a "make referendums legal" platform.

 

I vaguely remember him getting up in a cantidate's forum and running around yelling NO STRINGS!!!! NO STRINGS!!!! NO STRINGS!!! like he was at a rock concert...

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I think you're thinking of Mike Gravel. And yes, he's doing that. He's also saying that everyone who is running for the democratic ticket scares him.

 

But back to the topic at hand. I don't personally run this but i know a guy who does. his Cross-x is andy62 just tell him Potter sent you. but llevaz has some really good answers.

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Would anyone be able to help me find answers to A referendum CP? Or help me to answer it?

An argument I often win on for this CP is the 50/50 case solvency. Yes the referandum solves direct demo. and some other stuff but unless you run a demo aff it will only 50/50 solve for plan. At that point all you have to win is that the advs. they don't solve for outweight the ones they do, besides if they dont solves case there's no reason to vote for the CP. If they are assholes and say that people will vote yes then it's object fiat. Another good generic answer is timeframe. By the time the country votes yes or no the world will be destroyed through your 1AC impacts. And of course the ever usable perm. Do the CP but pass the plan whether voted yes or no.

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4. get some public would say no cards

 

 

 

Careful with this. If the net benefit IS politics...and the link is plan unpopular- this would be a baaad idea.

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Careful with this. If the net benefit IS politics...and the link is plan unpopular- this would be a baaad idea.

 

it would link you to tix, but, that is not going to outweigh the 1ac advantages. imo, getting rid of the CP and debating DA against case impacts is a much better debate for the aff

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Check out the Gonzaga files, it is sort of small but has some really cool turns that are freakin' hard to answer.

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Careful with this. If the net benefit IS politics...and the link is plan unpopular- this would be a baaad idea.

 

if they say plan unpopular as their link in the 1nc, then they dont have a CP.

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if they say plan unpopular as their link in the 1nc, then they dont have a CP.

 

No.

 

First,

 

Referendums/Con-cons CP can fiat ratification. I'm not certain of the ratio of conditional fiat to fiat ratification versions (but I wrote a block to both.

 

How do you see it run most of the time?

 

Second,

 

You're forgetting link delineations. Just because CP is unpopular with the public doesn't mean you can't run your sweet courts da (shielded from public opinion, hells yea) or iraq pullout with a base link.

 

Last,

 

It's irrelevant, because even if the aff wins that people would say "no" (conceding the 1nc is not enough - people can vote for unpopular policies because its a calculus - think about why john not bush kerry got half the votes) the neg still gets to claim several netbenefits which solve the aff advantages better (civic engagement, democracy, etc, type of aff) and of course disads outweigh. There are other tricks to this CP of course, like public deliberation is key to support, is a prereq to X

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No.

 

First,

 

Referendums/Con-cons CP can fiat ratification. I'm not certain of the ratio of conditional fiat to fiat ratification versions (but I wrote a block to both.

 

How do you see it run most of the time?

 

Second,

 

You're forgetting link delineations. Just because CP is unpopular with the public doesn't mean you can't run your sweet courts da (shielded from public opinion, hells yea) or iraq pullout with a base link.

 

Last,

 

It's irrelevant, because even if the aff wins that people would say "no" (conceding the 1nc is not enough - people can vote for unpopular policies because its a calculus - think about why john not bush kerry got half the votes) the neg still gets to claim several netbenefits which solve the aff advantages better (civic engagement, democracy, etc, type of aff) and of course disads outweigh. There are other tricks to this CP of course, like public deliberation is key to support, is a prereq to X

 

huh.. fiat ratification? isn't that just the aff plan?

 

the whole point of a referendum is for the nation to decide.. which means if you dont prove that people will say yes, you concede a huuge solvency deficit.

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you're wrong there're versions that ratify, it's not the aff plan cause it done differently. they basically call a townhall type convention to ammend the constitution. the last time this happened was in the 1700s.

 

isn't that a constitutional convention which is different from a referendum cp?

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isn't that a constitutional convention which is different from a referendum cp?

 

Ya, I think he's confused Referendum with ConCon.

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They're basically the same CP. What's the difference?

 

Im pretty sure the major difference between the two is who would be voting for said legislation. Constitutional Convention just deals with delegates from each state voting while a referendum includes all eligible voters in the United States.

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Im pretty sure the major difference between the two is who would be voting for said legislation. Constitutional Convention just deals with delegates from each state voting while a referendum includes all eligible voters in the United States.

 

sure the process is slightly different, but it has the same utility in debate, does it not? same runaway/corruption/media turns, avoids politics, avoids congress, etc

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