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rxg360

HADL Pride

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This thread is designed to vent and rant at life in HADL (the Harrisburg Area Debate League). I'll start off by saying that i hate the fact that our judges refuse to accept Kritiks and Counterplans.

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What school? As a former HADL participant, I understand frustration, but part of being a good debator is adapting to judges. In college, I have gotten comm and english professors who never heard a deabte in their life as judges...you just have ot adjust. When I was in HADL i disguised Kritiks as DA and won on them...CP are lost though.

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all of PA debate functionally sucks....the rest of the nation laughs at us....its sad....

 

The circuit is the best way to go. That's the way to educational debate. Sorry conestoga, but when I spoke to you at Harvard, I hated what you were telling me debate is all about. That's just flat out wrong.

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where are you from?

 

^^^yea

 

and as far as HADL, take it for what it's worth, its a great lesson in adapting to judges... and besides there is a debate world outside of kritiks an c/p's... you can have a really fun stock issues debate if you remove your mental blocks towards it... a lot of teams aren't ready for a serious stock debate...

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Stock debate eliminates from a lot of debate. it gets boring after a while, we did it for two years and got completely bored with it. WE used to hate kritiks because PA debate made us think they were horrible. Now we own people on the circuit with them. They're quite fun too bad PA sucks and doesnt allow for them

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^^^yea

 

and as far as HADL, take it for what it's worth, its a great lesson in adapting to judges... and besides there is a debate world outside of kritiks an c/p's... you can have a really fun stock issues debate if you remove your mental blocks towards it... a lot of teams aren't ready for a serious stock debate...

 

There is nothing wrong with good on-case debates....which is the root of the "stock issue" round.....the problem with it is:

 

1) the traditional "stock issue" paradigm needs updating......IE significance is obsolete for one...........most judges in our state say "stock issues" without any knowledge of what that really means except to know that it is a rejection of the circuit. In reality most of these judges want a slow policy maker round (at the expense of the traditonal stock issue topicality).

 

2) A lot of team's are not ready for it because they never see it except at states! or maybe a scattered central PA invitational......the vast majority of the debate world is split up between policy makers and tab judges. Its not an argument, but a reality.

 

3) and it doesn't take into account the tremendous increase in the Neg research burden for on case arguments that did not exist 10 years ago with the Internet and Google news, Lexis-Nexis and a dozen other sources.... It is really easy to come up with a unique nuanced aff plan text even within the advent of subsets in the resolution......the neg cannot easily research everyone of these now.

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Stock debate eliminates from a lot of debate. it gets boring after a while, we did it for two years and got completely bored with it. WE used to hate kritiks because PA debate made us think they were horrible. Now we own people on the circuit with them. They're quite fun too bad PA sucks and doesnt allow for them

 

 

ok, seriously, i love k's as much as the next person (even though Rene won't let us run them), but seriously, stock is not exactly boring, especially as the aff. if you accept it, it really opens the realm for logic/theory. i mean k's are great and yea this years topic is kinda open for em, but i stick by my previous statement, learn to deal with what you are given, you'll be a better debater for that...

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1) the traditional "stock issue" paradigm needs updating......IE significance is obsolete for one...........most judges in our state say "stock issues" without any knowledge of what that really means except to know that it is a rejection of the circuit. In reality most of these judges want a slow policy maker round (at the expense of the traditonal stock issue topicality).

 

i think your right, but the ignorance of judges is still better than no judges at all... and there are a few good stock judges

2) A lot of team's are not ready for it because they never see it except at states! or maybe a scattered central PA invitational......the vast majority of the debate world is split up between policy makers and tab judges. Its not an argument, but a reality.

 

ok, its still a decent strat... if you do the research for it

 

3) and it doesn't take into account the tremendous increase in the Neg research burden for on case arguments that did not exist 10 years ago with the Internet and Google news, Lexis-Nexis and a dozen other sources.... It is really easy to come up with a unique nuanced aff plan text even within the advent of subsets in the resolution......the neg cannot easily research everyone of these now.

 

the thing is, with the advent of internet search tools, the research burden may have increased, but it is also that much easier to do research.... 10 years ago vs today's research burden/method, 6 in one hand, hlf-dozen in the other... and besides, if the neg is good, the nuanced plan's will never last... when some one does somthing to avoid args by having a slightly altered text, its really easy to find reasons why it is xtra and/or fx-t...a litlle logic goes a long way there...

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even though Rene won't let us run them
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

 

from someone who has debated under him for 3 years...

 

what he doesn't know won't hurt you

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most judges in our state say "stock issues" without any knowledge of what that really means except to know that it is a rejection of the circuit.

 

As a former HADL alum and being coached under Murray who, while open to some new ideas, was more privy to stock issues, I think that many PA, central PA judges especially are told that K's nad CP's are bad, and really do not understand them. While there may be no hope for CP's, K's can be modified. I have used some and won on them in HADL rounds. Just do not call them K's. Judges are judging not understanding what the different arguments are so do not weigh them. SO just becasue there seems to be a moratorium on K's, you can in a sense still run them. I remember success with the Disaster Porn K on the UNPKO topic.

 

On another note, I had many interesting rounds that were stock issue rounds. If you have another good team who also adapts to have a stock issue round, can have great rounds. I am especially noticing this in college where I have had rounds with no T or any off case really, just maybe a disad. They do have value, and just running K's all the time you do lose some part od debate, what it was originally.

 

On that note, If want to run a K in PA, to be different or whateer, make sure you know what you are doing. I remember judging a Truman vs La Salle? novice finals round at the La Salle tourney where La salle ran a CP and a K that linked to both their CP and the orginal plan. Furthermore, both were badly developed and did not really know what to do besides reading the cards. YOu could run these args in PA, but have to know how to do it and how to explain to lay judges because you will get them.

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