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Although I agree with Dakota that the way Garry worded his original argument about people who want to win being at camp appears to 1) exclude other camps and 2) fail to take into account a group of debaters incapable of fielding sums of money to go to camp REGARDLESS OF FINANCIAL AID, I believe Garry's argument has been mischaracterized:

 

1. Garry's original post was in response to Spokanites, not in response to people in other areas. This means that Garry's comment was meant to apply to the Spokane community, meaning that

 

a) Proximity to the GDI mean that financial aid reduces the cost of a 4 week scholarship to under $1000, and that a merit scolarship (attainable in Spokane through success at the local GU tournament) potentially reduces this to something as low as (or, for an alumni, lower then) the cost of the 2 week camp. That can be afforded through work.

 

B) Given the fact that the vast majority of Spokane debaters who don't go to camp have the capability to raise money for the GDI, not doing so shows a lack of dedication (for the majority of Spokanite debaters).

 

c) Garry's misunderstanding of Dakota's arguments is preempted by a misunderstanding of Garry's arguments by Dakota.

 

2. In this view, later applications to the greater PNW extend the premise of Garry's criticism of passive participation in debate, but not the idea that everyone who wants to win is doing 4 week.

 

3. Garry's later arguments, what Dakota calls "showboating" for the GDI, demonstrate the willingness of the GDI, which is easily the best camp in the PNW, to accomodate difficulties of debaters, financial or otherwise. This supports his Spokane-oriented premise that Spokanites who desire to do well at debate are already at camp.

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1) Just because we're in the Spokane thread doesn't mean that everything is automatically interpreted in the context of Spokane. If Garry's original post was meant to have been interpreted as "People who live in Spokane would go to the GDI if they wanted to win debate rounds," then that would have been a different statement, but that's not what his original post said. Both Disads still link.

 

you're wrong

 

how're all your summers' goin'?

Rusty asking kids in spokane (since its the spokane thread) how there summer is goin

 

Camp in a week, woo.

gallen (sp?) responding, indicating camp starts in a week

 

thats factually incorrect camp is occuring as we speak

garry stating camp is going on now

 

Perhaps he is referring to the camp he is going to. Maybe the three week camp, Padaterdat.

the camp=GDI

 

obviously that is the case, however I was merely indicating that the people who really want to win debate rounds (Wilson Faust) are at camp already for 4 weeks also I was indicating that some people are already at camp answering Shakleford's question on how peoples summer is going

read all of the post, spokies already going to four week camp, his statement were specific to spokane

 

Taken out of context, the "link" to the "DA" or whatever a link of omission or some other stupid thing, garry was talking about spokane kids

 

btw, ignoring that glen frappier is amazing when it comes to financial crises is way more important than you think, he sets situations up as much as possible for spokane kids to come, he looks after us not only because he's a great guy that cares about spokane (rare for us) but it helps the reputation of his program (not just the camp) abroad. You can say it may be impossible, but glen will find ways for spokane kids to come to camp. period.

 

just a side note: im sure garry was essentially telling kids (most of whom can afford camp btw) that they need to go to camp more (aka rusty, micah, galen...whatever spokane debaters there are) thats it.

 

Props to Wilson above

 

EDIT:

you're not helping or motivating, why don't you do something to help them out? Why are you not holding a affordable debate camp (or a co-op) GDi has the resources to help you. You're chastising of the Spokane population doesnt help anyone byt you (in the sense that you feel better about yourself)

Dog.

Actually no. Garry Chastising helps the entire commutity, it has worked it in the past...and its not just garry. Before you were old enough to speak words, the top debate coaches in spokane told thier top kids to go to camp to get better

See: Mead 89-97, Gprep 86-95

It's the way kids work here, that may not be how it works elsewhere but here its true. Of course chastising someone who can't afford camp is not going to work, Spokane is different. Having lived here longer than anyone on this thread except possibly garry and sam, there are thousands of oppurtunities for work with great paying wages, school fundraising for camp (it works). Different culture, community and circumstances

Spokane Kids can get to camp, they have in the past and should in the future, its all about motiviation and here garry has clout to do so (considering he's one of the areas best debaters in the last 3 years)

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Andrew, the context of Rusty's question does not provide a justification for why Garry's lack of specificity translates into the assumption of a Spokane context in the statement, "people who really want to win debate rounds (Wilson Faust) are at camp already for 4 weeks." You underline the second clause, but that is irrelevant to the first clause, which is where the links to both of Dak's disad's lie.

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I'm sorry that a foreigner must intervene, but this debate is really quite asinine. That is all

Don't worry, foreigners have been intervening in the Spokane thread since day 1.

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"Andrew, the context of Rusty's question does not provide a justification for why Garry's lack of specificity translates into the assumption of a Spokane context in the statement, "people who really want to win debate rounds (Wilson Faust) are at camp already for 4 weeks."

 

This makes no sense.

 

 

The context of Garry's argument in the thread is enough to show that he refers to Spokanites with his controversial clause. This context is reinforced by the second scentence in the original post, proving that he is still referring to Spokane. There is NO indication that the first clause is intended to be a catch-all phrase.

 

This debate should be over.

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This makes no sense.

 

Uh, yeah, it does. You responded to it, so obviously you had some understanding of what it said.

 

The context of Garry's argument in the thread is enough to show that he refers to Spokanites with his controversial clause. This context is reinforced by the second scentence in the original post, proving that he is still referring to Spokane. There is NO indication that the first clause is intended to be a catch-all phrase. This debate should be over.

 

Um, like I was saying, even if you can prove that Garry's original post was made in a Spokane context, it wasn't worded as if it were, so it still links. If you read a vague plan text, you can't make the argument that the context of your solvency evidence clears things up.

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Uh, yeah, it does. You responded to it, so obviously you had some understanding of what it said.

 

Of course Wilson argued a point you made, that is because he is actually good at debate. Oh, and of course the argument doesn't make sense, the lack of a period caused a retarded statement. And, of course the context matters you discourse douche. If I said "thats hot", I could be referring to any number of things, the context obviously matters. If Gary is talking about Spokane debaters (who by the way usually come from rather wealthy families), then he isn't trying to exclude people from outside of spokane. This also means that all of Gary's arguments about how accomadating GDI is apply since most of th examples are about Spokane kids.

 

 

Um, like I was saying, even if you can prove that Garry's original post was made in a Spokane context, it wasn't worded as if it were, so it still links. If you read a vague plan text, you can't make the argument that the context of your solvency evidence clears things up.

 

First, you can make whatever argument you want, it only matters if you can win it. Second, this is not debate, this is the real world. There are no rules on what you can do to clarify, there are no plans, there are no concessions. In an actual discussion, a point never goes "dropped", the same applies here. Third, this is where that context thing comes in. if I say that "thats hot" I could either be referring to a toaster or person. The context of my statement would be able to make that delineation.

 

In general, Gary is the last person that y'all should be accusing of excluding poor people. Gary has earned my respect by working through an incredibly difficult (and poorly funded) situation to become successful debater and great kid that he is. BTW Dakota, you said that you weren't able to work, but then you said you were on the verge of 2 jobs... what is the story. Also, you gave an example of kids having to completely support their family. This sounds like a situation where the kids couldn't leave home for four weeks, let alone one where the kids would actually have time to actively participate in debate. The amount of time dedication to deb ate takes up is about as significant as a four week camp. Why don't y'all think about who your talking to before you get to carried away.

 

Oh and Gary, I'll get you your money as soon as possible. Sorry it has taken so long. Oh, and i don't ever want to hear that you have been whining about how "rich" I am. My Mom had to work her way through all of school and law school at GU at Wendy's, so all of her income doesn't go straight to the bank account. Other than that, we cool bro

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Of course Wilson argued a point you made, that is because he is actually good at debate.

 

1) This doesn't answer the argument that if he understood it enough to respond to it, then it made some sense.

 

Oh, and of course the argument doesn't make sense, the lack of a period caused a retarded statement.

 

2) There were two periods in the post I made that you're referring to.

 

3) I still see no warrants as to why my statement didn't make sense. Everyone (you and Wilson) seems to understand what I said.

 

And, of course the context matters you discourse douche. If I said "thats hot", I could be referring to any number of things, the context obviously matters.

 

4) I never said that context doesn't matter, just that, "the context of Rusty's question does not provide a justification for why Garry's lack of specificity translates into the assumption of a Spokane context in the statement..." The key term is Garry's use of the word "people," when he says, "people who really want to win debate rounds (Wilson Faust) are at camp already for 4 weeks." The term "people" transcends the context of Rusty's inquiry by opening up the possibility of who people interested in winning debate rounds might be to those outside of Spokane.

 

If Gary is talking about Spokane debaters (who by the way usually come from rather wealthy families), then he isn't trying to exclude people from outside of spokane. This also means that all of Gary's arguments about how accomadating GDI is apply since most of th examples are about Spokane kids.

 

5) It's not a question of whether or not Garry is trying to exclude people from outside of Spokane, but whether or not his discourse has the effect of excluding any people in general.

 

First, you can make whatever argument you want, it only matters if you can win it.

 

6) When I said, "If you read a vague plan text, you can't make the argument that the context of your solvency evidence clears things up." Obviously that means that I was saying that you can't legitimately make that argument, not that it wasn't physically possible. The analogy was used to explain that the context of the statements surrounding the original statement being discussed didn't penetrate the lack of specificity in that sentence.

 

Second, this is not debate, this is the real world. There are no rules on what you can do to clarify, there are no plans, there are no concessions. In an actual discussion, a point never goes "dropped", the same applies here.

 

7) I don't actually think that Garry is some big, opprssive monster that makes it his goal to exclude kids on cross-x. Obviously this whole debate is just a fun joke, but that doesn't change the fact that Garry's original discourse links to both of Dak's disads.

 

Third, this is where that context thing comes in. if I say that "thats hot" I could either be referring to a toaster or person. The context of my statement would be able to make that delineation.

 

8) Extend subpoints 4 and 6

 

In general, Gary is the last person that y'all should be accusing of excluding poor people.

 

9) Extend subpoint 5.

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Spokane lit off a total of maybe 12 fireworks. Dirty brit loving tea drinkers. Thomas Jefferson just rolled over in his grave.

you must spread more reputation before giving it to Msacko again

 

hey everyone, micah just won

 

btw, penci your arguments are points, not subpoints

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your contempt of british people just dropped your speaker points the next time i judge you

 

*slaps michah with his british passport*

 

JWILL, you can't say that you love people. I mean the serial killers are bad people, and since you said people, you are obviously refering to serial killers. jerk

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you can't say that you love people. I mean the serial killers are bad people, and since you said people, you are obviously refering to serial killers. jerk

that sounds like a syllogistic mistake.

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umm.

can i rephrase my question?

how were spokane kids in the timeframe between state and the beginning of whenever they went/will go to camp or any other time since the end of the school year, not including camp or financial problems?

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Spokane lit off a total of maybe 12 fireworks. Dirty brit loving tea drinkers. Thomas Jefferson just rolled over in his grave.

I was up in between northport and kettle falls lighting off a crud load of fireworks. Plus i bet a bunch of people were not to keen on fireworks after what happened by long lake.

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im calling the cops on you. 500 $ fine for you!

Actually i was not in spokane or spokane county, as far as i know, it was completely legal.:)

 

P.S. Its actually a 513 $ fine in the spokane area.

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Wait, that doesn't make sense does it Dakota?

 

Of course it doesnt. He used the modifier "british". You're argument is ridiculous.

 

 

Of course Wilson argued a point you made, that is because he is actually good at debate. Oh, and of course the argument doesn't make sense, the lack of a period caused a retarded statement. And, of course the context matters you discourse douche. If I said "thats hot", I could be referring to any number of things, the context obviously matters. If Gary is talking about Spokane debaters (who by the way usually come from rather wealthy families), then he isn't trying to exclude people from outside of spokane. This also means that all of Gary's arguments about how accomadating GDI is apply since most of th examples are about Spokane kids.

 

he diddn't say 'spokane kids that want to win debate rounds'

 

BTW Dakota, you said that you weren't able to work, but then you said you were on the verge of 2 jobs... what is the story.

I'm approaching 16. Also, there are different rules within places in seattle (my new home, recently) that allow you to work at 15.5.

 

 

Also, you gave an example of kids having to completely support their family. This sounds like a situation where the kids couldn't leave home for four weeks, let alone one where the kids would actually have time to actively participate in debate. The amount of time dedication to deb ate takes up is about as significant as a four week camp.

 

exactly my point. This person could be succesful without being at gonzaga. Not saying zag wouldnt help.

 

 

All I'm saying is that, it isn't neccesary to have been at Gonzaga for FOUR weeks of camp to be a good debater. Gonzaga will help you become a good debater.

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Jon Williamson, Ben Picozzi, Anna Scott and the great C. Caleb Jewitt can attest to that

 

For the love of God Garry, please stop spelling my name wrong. I reply to EVERY SINGLE POST you make with my name in it with this pleading, and I will not stop being annoying about it anytime soon. You got Picozzi's right; you can get mine right. Padrta took me about five seconds to memorize; I'm sure you can do mine in ten.

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Spokane lit off a total of maybe 12 fireworks. Dirty brit loving tea drinkers. Thomas Jefferson just rolled over in his grave.

 

That is total B.S. I got lost north of campus last night and used the fireworks to find my way back, so they must have gone on for at least 10 min straight.

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