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Should Felons have the right to vote?

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper

why should felons be involved in the making of law? there's an argument to be made that it's not in the interest of the nation to be letting those who have shown their disregard for the law influence it.

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The answer is yes.

 

Their disregard for current law is irrelevant. Gandhi, MLK, and each of our founding fathers: all disregarded (and indeed has disdain for) then-current laws.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper

that isn't a point, mike.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper

those people are only retroactively right. they were judged by history, and society came up short. society changed. when laws against murder get overturned, i'll be ok with murderers voting.

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those people are only retroactively right. they were judged by history, and society came up short. society changed. when laws against murder get overturned, i'll be ok with murderers voting.

 

so we should expect people to follow the rules they dont agree with?

 

if not,then they shouldnt be allowed to make new ones that they would agree with?

 

that makes little sense

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those people are only retroactively right. they were judged by history, and society came up short. society changed. when laws against murder get overturned, i'll be ok with murderers voting.

 

 

You are forcing them to act outside of the system to change it. If they can't vote to change a law that they feel is unfair, they have to use other methods of protest.

 

Consider the number of people who have been convicted of using marijuana...many of whom can not vote because of felonious conviction. If all of those people could vote (and stopped smoking long enough to go to the polls) perhaps the laws would be changed. Without the vote, what method do the really have of trying to change the law? Convincing mainly non-users of their right to do so?

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
so we should expect people to follow the rules they dont agree with?

 

if not,then they shouldnt be allowed to make new ones that they would agree with?

 

that makes little sense

 

so we should expect people to have their cake and eat it too?

 

you people are focusing on some marginal cases here.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
They should have the right to vote. To deny a person rights is to deny that person's humanity.

 

so they should vote in prison too huh :flower:

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I can think of two reasons for not letting felons vote-

 

First would be that they would elect or vote for policy that would promote crime, corruption, etc. Problem with this is that I doubt that many felons would vote so as to make a sufficent difference in policy for the worse of society anyway.

 

Second would be that voting is one of the greatest possible rights that America can grant to its citizens, giving them a direct voice in government, thus removing that voice is a powerful punishment / deterrent. Again, though, I seriously doubt that enough crimminals or felons would really care about not being able to vote to make any sort of difference.

 

I don't have too many moral qualms about not letting felons vote, but I don't see how it's effective in anyway, unless as some sort of symbolic punishment.

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I don't have too many moral qualms about not letting felons vote, but I don't see how it's effective in anyway, unless as some sort of symbolic punishment.

It's a way to punish and reduce the influence of a politically unpopular group.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
It's a way to punish and reduce the influence of a politically unpopular group.

what, people who have robbed or assaulted or murdered people? yeah, real fucking repressive :rolleyes:

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what, people who have robbed or assaulted or murdered people? yeah, real fucking repressive :rolleyes:

 

 

All those people combined don't equal the number in jail for drugs...which, although illegal, some might argue that the law is repressive.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper

i don't think the war on drugs is a good thing, but felons lost the right to vote long before the drug trade was around. i think there are a number of good reasons to reinstate voting for felons (which is actually possible now, just not automatic), but also a lot of questions.

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i don't think the war on drugs is a good thing, but felons lost the right to vote long before the drug trade was around. i think there are a number of good reasons to reinstate voting for felons (which is actually possible now, just not automatic), but also a lot of questions.

But "drug war victims" weren't felons before the drug war.

 

I'm not just focusing on the drug war. I think we need truth in sentencing. If you view the criminal justice system as rehabilitative, then how long does it take to rehabilitate someone for aggravated assault, or burglary? Should a crime that carries a 6-month jail sentence be accompanied by a lifetime punishment?

 

There are a number of "victimless crimes" which can cost the perpetrator the right to vote. These aren't people who've displayed a desire to prey on their fellow citizens. They shouldn't be deprived the basic rights of citizenship once they've paid their dues (they shouldn't have to pay any dues period, but that's another matter).

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
But "drug war victims" weren't felons before the drug war.

 

sure, it's a bad law. change it.

 

I'm not just focusing on the drug war. I think we need truth in sentencing. If you view the criminal justice system as rehabilitative, then how long does it take to rehabilitate someone for aggravated assault, or burglary? Should a crime that carries a 6-month jail sentence be accompanied by a lifetime punishment?

 

There are a number of "victimless crimes" which can cost the perpetrator the right to vote. These aren't people who've displayed a desire to prey on their fellow citizens. They shouldn't be deprived the basic rights of citizenship once they've paid their dues (they shouldn't have to pay any dues period, but that's another matter).

 

the criminal justice system is obviously not rehabilitative.

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sure, it's a bad law. change it.
Agreed.

 

But sometimes the opportunities for justice are more random. Repealing drug laws is a tough sell. Removing the blanket prohibition (in some states) for felons voting might be more opportune.

 

It's a step.

the criminal justice system is obviously not rehabilitative.
I agree that it's not very rehabilitative, and in many cases it's just the opposite.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
Agreed.

 

But sometimes the opportunities for justice are more random. Repealing drug laws is a tough sell. Removing the blanket prohibition (in some states) for felons voting might be more opportune.

 

It's a step.

 

but you've got it completely backwards. you just think drug users shouldn't be felons, not that felons shouldn't vote.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
Much easier to do if the people who are typically in violation of it aren't excluded from the process.

yeah, it probably would be. it would also probably be easier to legalize murder if murderers could vote. it's is a tangential statement.

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1. How would re-enfranchising felons hurt anyone? What could they possibly do at the ballot box to cause harm to themselves, others, or society in general?

 

2. If the felons are trusted to lawfully associate with the rest of society upon release, companies are given tax-breaks to hire them, and they are (supposedlly) rehabilitated, why shouldn't these citizens be allowed to vote? We expect them not to commit more crimes (all of which would be presumambly more harmful than voting), so what purpose does permanent disenfanchisement serve besides making the rest of the citizenry feel a little better because their vote won't be cancelled-out by some "stupid felon"?

 

~

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yeah, it probably would be. it would also probably be easier to legalize murder if murderers could vote. it's is a tangential statement.

Legalize it, and we can murder the murderers. Oh wait...we already do.

 

Currently the only "legal murder" is perpetrated BY the government, AGAINST the disenfranchised.

 

If the government is going to claim a right to take your life, you should at least be able to participate in government.

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Guest Hang'in With Special Agent Dale Cooper
and they are (supposedlly) rehabilitated

 

No they aren't.

 

And felons aren't disqualified because they're "stupid," they're disqualified because they've already proven their disregard for the social body as a whole. The prosecutor is standing in for the people, right?

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