Consult Iraq

[DebataHata721 9]

What do you think of this CP. I've prepared myself for the "this is so stupid...die!" responses so bring them on! But think of it the US has consulted the interim government before and Iraq is taking a regional hegemonic role in its relationship with the UN. Net Benefits include Iraqi Politix, Mideast Peace, Oil, Ethnocentrism and some random others.

 

-Anthony

[fikej 14]

is this just against the Iraq case or would you run it every round

[DebataHata721 9]

I would run it against every case EXCEPT Iraq and EXCEPT cases which put PKOs in countries Iraq still has a big bias against.

 

Good or Bad? Give me a really good comment and maybe I'll send you the finished file if you want.

 

-Anthony

[DebataHata721 9]

I just finished cutting the temporary shells. Here is how it looks.

 

1. Consult Iraq

2. Oil Shocks DA - If we don't consult world economy will crash due to oil shocks and this causes nuclear war.

3. Middle East Stability - if we don't consult Iraq will descend into chaos bringing the rest of the Middle East and South East Asia and parts of Europe w/ it leading to Nuclear War.

4. Iraqi Elections DA - consultation makes Allawi win if we don't consult Hakim wins and he will cause a civil war leading to nuclear war.

 

What does everyone thing?

[ro0t115 208]

arent we kinda consulting them in the status quo?

 

2. Oil Shocks DA - If we don't consult world economy will crash due to oil shocks and this causes nuclear war.

 

this is happening now anyway. i also think i read an article about how the dollar is losing it place in the international arena. and i dont think EVERYONE gets their oil from Iraq.

 

3. Middle East Stability - if we don't consult Iraq will descend into chaos bringing the rest of the Middle East and South East Asia and parts of Europe w/ it leading to Nuclear War.

 

um. i would think that with all that has happened, the US would step in and try to stop this from happening if this wereto occur. and Iraq is unstable now anyway and it hasnt led to nuke war.

 

4. Iraqi Elections DA - consultation makes Allawi win if we don't consult Hakim wins and he will cause a civil war leading to nuclear war.

 

i may be really stupid but i dont see the internal link from consultation and making someone win. i think Allawi will win anyway.

 

besides that stuff. i would think that is the US is hated so much there in the SQ, then why would consulting the interim government make us and them look even better.it seems to me that it would make even more problems because it looks like the US is getting hugely involved with iraq again.

 

jus

[Midway Dictator 9]

seems pretty cool, i just started looking into this argument and there seems to be good lit for it.

 

i would suggest making a US credibility w/ UN argument saying the UN thinks the US failed in Iraq and wont want take any of our peacekeeping ideas seriously which hurts their solvency.

 

but if we make Iraq look like it is working to the UN members they'll actually really get behind us in peacekeeping.

 

i personally like to have some sort of solvency argument when i run consults.

 

also, i would change up the scenario for middle east stability to be based around a coup of the current government so you can avoid the emp. denied claim.

 

lastly, you can always right a net benefit saying Iraq is about to be left out of peacekeeping... now is the key time for the US to teach them to act like us.

[mikel 7]

I'd have to agree with the no I/L on the iraqi ptx. but I haven't read the shell yet either, so I don't know if im the best judge. could it be like consulting allawi makes him seem powerful to the iraqi's?

[DebataHata721 9]

The argument is that Allawi is losing because he has no credibility and my card says consultation gives him and the interim government credibility in the eyes of the Iraqis.

[mikel 7]

yeah I could see it working as well as any other consult c.

[ro0t115 208]

The argument is that Allawi is losing because he has no credibility and my card says consultation gives him and the interim government credibility in the eyes of the Iraqis.

 

i would think that the iraqis would get more pissed because they dont like the US already anyway.

someone,in my eyes, could easily turn this net-benefit. the argument could be along the lines of, a. the US is violent and is trying to hand over the operation to the UN. b. consultation pisses off the iraqis even more because they think we are getting back in their shit. c. the iraqis vote for the other guy and let Allawi rott because hes working with the US.

 

just an idea.

[DebataHata721 9]

ALL MY JUDGES LOVED IT. Though (my partner, the 2n's fault) we didn't go for it.

[Disolved_Solvency 49989]

Perm: Do counterplan.

[debater4523 10]

Basic evidence every good consult CP needs:

1. AT Perm (genuine consultation key, prior consultation key, Iraq will discover the lie (I would be surprised if Iraq has spies in the government...))

2. Iraq will say yes (this doesn't need to be amazing, just something like the government is a puppet and will do whatever)

3. Net Benefit (adequate link and internal link evidence, this can be the hardest to find sometimes)

 

The quality of evidence needed by a consult CP is inversely proportional to the chance that the other team has carded answers; in this case, you can have pretty shitty evidence and still have a runnable CP.

[nolongerused 52]

Personally, I think the counterplan is stupid, no offense. I mean, how can there be an impact to anything? We basically control the country. We have tons of troops there, and we can always send more. If they threaten to withhold the oil, Bush will probably bomb every town in Iraq.

[The Spork 154]

There isn't a single card that says we need prior binding consultation - there's no offense against the lie perm, the non-genuine consultation perm (yes, they're different), and the plan then counterplan perm. Too bad leaks arguments don't do shit for you - there's no impact to iraq finding out its not binding consultation.

[DebataHata721 9]

1. The CP is gone. My next tourny is Harvard and it won't work post-election.

2. The judges loved it and I'll take their opinion over yours.

3. I have cards saying binding consultation is key. Don't just assume I don't have the evidence. The links to the net benefits only work with genuine consultation.

-Anthony

[The Spork 154]

Then post some of this magical evidence. It really can't hurt you since you aren't running it again. (not the whole file - just the link evidence)

[DebataHata721 9]

It isn't internet evidence. It's evidence I've compiled from various other files. And I don't have a scanner. One of them the entire link is consultation restores credibility to the Iraqi Interim Gov. and the argument in the card is non-binding consultation will decrease cred.

[fluffy_commie 20]

2. The judges loved it and I'll take their opinion over yours.

 

Then don't post.

[CentralChubbs 19]

It is a great cp because it allows everyone who thinks we really only care about Iraq for the oil have an alternative. So it would be really good against any case that has an oil adv. because you can run that oil is the only reason for acting, but the cp will solve back. I would really like a copy of that.

[MrTom225 35]

It is a great cp because it allows everyone who thinks we really only care about Iraq for the oil have an alternative. So it would be really good against any case that has an oil adv. because you can run that oil is the only reason for acting, but the cp will solve back. I would really like a copy of that.

and chubbs is awesome.

 

ill give it an 8. although it might seem likea good idea but considering our political position in iraq right now either 1. they will def say no or 2. why consult a country you basically imperialized if you should take over another country?

[DebataHata721 9]

Then don't post.

 

I posted before my tournament.

 

Also, those of you who would like a copy just IM me. I can give you a mess of unarranged cards. But I don't have a scanner and I composed it by hand. But if you want to write it yourself there is a good amount of stuff I can give you, since I'm done running it (like I said it won't work well after the elections).

 

-Anthony