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Sivispacemparabellum08

Debate without trading evidence...

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You know how before and during the debate season, people go to debate camps, cut out evidenace as labs, the labs share with each other, and then people share camps woth each other....Think about debate without all of of this trading, and if everyone had to cut all of their own evidenace and there was absolutely no trading between debaters.... Debates would be a lot more about who could be the best researcher than who could be the best Debater...i dunno this thougt just hit me while i was at work...Think about it...

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I don't know, it may force students who want to really debate investigate and research deeply without having "rough copies" of came evidence already in front of them. Just think about it. At least one year without camp evidence and you would have to do all the research on your own, with no guide basically, and it will teach you things that you can use for the years you have ahead of you. That is, only if you're really into debate and really put the effort into it. If you don't, then you won't be successful at all. It may even increase education because the more research YOU do the more YOU learn. It's basic input/output. The more you put into this activity by doing your own research and being resolute by focusing on it the better output you'll have in the end. It's true you may not have a hundred cards read during the round, but that may be a good thing. Instead of running arguments you don't really understand fully and know well, you can run things that you've done all the research on yourself. You'll know it front and back. It won't give you as many options as if you had all the camps that were available, but at least you'll be knowing what you're actually talking about, running, and it'll make for a better quality of debate. This only works if one devouts their time into this activity. That works today too, but having these camp files available via trade or going to camp makes things a lot easier, IMO. It just depends though.

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I used to do all of my research and I found it to be a LOT more useful than trading evidence (I stopped researching myself because I became lazy). When I did my own research, I knew the cards I had and what they said, and if I needed a specific card, I knew if I had it or not. Doing your own research would be more beneficial for some people but if you are going to be lazy, then it wont be. Maybe a mixture between the two would be useful, because trading evidence does have its benefits.

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evidence trading is useful to curb the effectiveness of stupid "gotcha" positions where the point is to cath the other team without evidence, positions that you just don't need to put in research time on because they're not really educational. also, evidence trading helps smaller squads who would otherwise just wouldn't have the time to do the research. good teams are going to at least give the files they feel they might use a cursory look, bad teams aren't going to do research or read their traded evidence, so i don't think there's a causal connection between trading and quality of debate so much as there may be some between quality of debator and tendency to research/read.

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To my knowledge, debate used to be much more like that a couple decades ago. It would be interesting, although terrible for education and quality of debate rounds.
Yeah, because obviously no one learned anything and all debates were crappy until 20 years ago... :rolleyes:

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They were different. I was saying that debating without traded evidence would be bad for quality and education with today's style of debate. Back in the old school stuff was a lot different, Ks didn't exist, CPs might not have, fiat was barely around. It was a crazy time, I've heard.

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CPs might not have? maybe you should stop offering unfounded speculation on something you clearly have no knowledge of. just a thought.

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They were different. I was saying that debating without traded evidence would be bad for quality and education with today's style of debate. Back in the old school stuff was a lot different, Ks didn't exist, CPs might not have, fiat was barely around. It was a crazy time, I've heard.

 

ROTFLMAO! It sure was a crzy time. People used 3x5 cards and typed their evidence onto them. If you wanted copies, you had to use a mimeograph machine and copies wer like a quarter a page, so you didn't do much copying, so you;d find books and magazines at the libraries with cards cut out of them...

 

And rounds were like man. There was case debate and disads came out in the 2N and You only had a four-minute rebuttal. It was a crazy, crazy time.

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Camp trading helps people on squads of four or six or eight that don't have an army cutting cards for them. It's sort of like an arms race--if everyone else has camp files, it gives you a tactical disadvantage if you don't, and it doesn't help you simply to recuse yourself from the world. It's always good to know what's floating out there, since I end up cutting cards against or augmenting camp files anyway.

 

It has its pluses (and cutting your own cards does work out better), and it's never a bad thing to have camp files to go to as a base or supplement.

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The best researched teams almost invariably win rounds.

 

Camp evidence helps to provide rough contours to the topic, and often serves as a conduit for evidence from college to high school debate. That introduces new ideas. New ideas are probably a good thing. It doesn't set a ceiling, but helps new teams get off the ground. We should all be for lowering entry barriers, especially when there's no real tradeoff with excellence. Put simply, I think it's good if startup teams can start rolling without a huge research effort. Kids who want to win everything can then push their squad to the next level, if they feel that's a good time investment.

 

I've advocated a formal sharing system for *all* debate evidence. I think it's particularly easy in the case of debate camps. This site could do it. Secure permission from institutes, then post the briefs as PDFs for everyone. Institutes get free name branding; cross-x.com increases their traffic.

 

The potential research workload certainly isn't diminishing.

 

I've been in debate for a long time. The work ethic isn't really plummeting, although it might be off its post-Lexis pre-K peak. That's just not the problem. The problem is numbers. Numbers. Numbers. Almost everything should be subordinated to that overarching goal, IMO.

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I try to trade for camp evidence. While I don't end up using very much of the it in round I have found that it is helpful in at least three ways:

 

-it gives me ideas on arguments to cut

-it tells me what i need to write 2ac blocks to before the season starts

-some of the files have evidence from books that are not in the libraries I have access too

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Personally, i think trading for camp evidence is good, because it allows smaller squads who may just have access to a computer to get a wealth of evidence. Without it, squads would pay money to buy evidence for covering the generic positions and the rich/poor gap would widen.

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Our school debated without trading evidence up until a year or two ago and I think that it was better when we didn't trade. Trading encourages people not to think out of the box and causes you to run/hear the same positions round after round. The best thing I think is to trade around to see what camps made/know what teams who only trade evidence are going to run on you. After that, actually think and come up with your own positions. Everyone says that small schools are at a disadvantage but I think it is about the same. I'm from a small school and unlike most "bigger" schools who have tons of evidence, we know our evidence really well. Granted, we might only have 10-20 positions but they're good.

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My school didn't trade evidence for the first 2 years of it's CX program and I recall that the only evidence we had was stuff from Cameron debate camp (terrible evidence that year) and some stuff from Paradigm research and the Baylor Breifs...oh my god was it terrible. But then again we were lazy newbs and didn't research our own stuff very much as a whole. So we brought it on ourself.

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I trade evidence b/c our debate program doesnt have a big fund nor big team and I could understand your argument if all the teams were big and had the staff but other then that you need help and trading is that help Im sorry if I repeated anything

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My school didn't trade evidence for the first 2 years of it's CX program and I recall that the only evidence we had was stuff from Cameron debate camp (terrible evidence that year) and some stuff from Paradigm research and the Baylor Breifs...oh my god was it terrible. But then again we were lazy newbs and didn't research our own stuff very much as a whole. So we brought it on ourself.

 

 

Correction, you brought it on yourself, I did my own research for my team and then helped Haley and Brit when they went onto to state.

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