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pnw's view on hip hop

What is Hip Hop to you?  

47 members have voted

  1. 1. What is Hip Hop to you?

    • Style of Music
      26
    • Crazy kids, who need to learn to buckle a belt
      4
    • saves lives
      1
    • saves lives+so much more
      16


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You will not be able to stay home, brother.

You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.

You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,

Skip out for beer during commercials,

Because the revolution will not be televised.

 

The revolution will not be televised.

The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox

In 4 parts without commercial interruptions.

The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon

blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John

Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat

hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary.

The revolution will not be televised.

 

The revolution will not be brought to you by the

Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie

Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia.

The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal.

The revolution will not get rid of the nubs.

The revolution will not make you look five pounds

thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

 

There will be no pictures of you and Willie May

pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,

or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance.

NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32

or report from 29 districts.

The revolution will not be televised.

 

There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down

brothers in the instant replay.

There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down

brothers in the instant replay.

There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being

run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process.

There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy

Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and

Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving

For just the proper occasion.

 

Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville

Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and

women will not care if Dick finally gets down with

Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people

will be in the street looking for a brighter day.

The revolution will not be televised.

 

There will be no highlights on the eleven o'clock

news and no pictures of hairy armed women

liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose.

The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb,

Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom

Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth.

The revolution will not be televised.

 

The revolution will not be right back after a message

bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.

You will not have to worry about a dove in your

bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.

The revolution will not go better with Coke.

The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.

The revolution will put you in the driver's seat.

 

The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,

will not be televised, will not be televised.

The revolution will be no re-run brothers;

The revolution will be live.

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why didn't you make voting records public, i can't think of a single valid warrant beside you forgot.

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WHAT IS HIP HOP?

bad question, I mean:

Its still bigger than hip hop hip hop hip hop hip

Its bigger than hip hop hip hop hip hop hip hop

 

[verse 1]

Uhh, uhh, uhh

One thing bout music when its real they get scared

Got us slavin for the welfare

Aint no food, clothes, or healthcare

Im down for guerilla warfare

All my niggas put your guns in the air if you really dont care

Skunk in the air, make a nigga wanna buck in the air

For my brother locked up in the jump for a year

Shit is real out here dont believe these videos

This fake ass industry gotta pay to get a song on the radio

Really though, dpz gon let you know

Its just a game of pimps and hoes

And its all bout who you know

Not who we are, or how we grow

I rap bout what I know, what I go through

What I been through, not just for no dough

Even though the rent due, what Im into aint for no dough

Or just no fame, everything must change, nothin remains the same

Sick of the same ol thang, its bigger than bling bling

 

Hook:

If i, feel it I feel it, if I dont, I dont

If it aint really real then I probably wont

Rollin with my soldiers, live soldiers, ready to ride

For this real hip hop yall Im ready to die

Uhh, hip what hop what hip what hop what hip what hop what hip what

Hop cmon, cmon, my soldiers, live soldiers, ready to ride

For this real hip hop yall Im ready to die

 

[verse 2]

Hip hop means sayin what I want never bite my tongue

Hip hop means teaching the young

If you feelin what Im feelin then you hearin what Im sayin

Cause these fake fake records just keep on playin

What you sayin huh dp bringin the funk

Let the bassline rattle your trunk, uhhh!

Punk pig wit a badge wanna handcuff me cuz my pants thats tend to sag

Hip hop means throw up your rag, soldier flag

Whether ridin on the bus or you stole a jag

M-1 mean freedom, burn the cash

Revolutionary love til the day we pass

Will they play it on the radio

Maybe not, maybe so we gon keep it pumpin though

Everybody know we headed for the whoa, fo sho

 

[verse 3]

Ay dogg that label is that slave ship

Owners got them whips and rappers is slaves

If you really wanna eat you gotta hear the same thing

With the football, b-ball, or if you slangin that dope

Aint never seen no hope, brainwash video shows be foolin my folk

What the hell a brother gon do though, huh

When the rent due, when the lights and the gas gonna get cut off

Drop them raps or cock them gats

Aint never had shit ever since we came to this bitch

Why I gotta feel pain to get rich

stead of stackin chips, finna pack them clips

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what songs are these?

its a good question!

and i forgot jordan sorry.. please forgive me

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last time I checked, Gil Scott Heron isn't hip-hop.

 

He's good.

 

He ain't hip hop.

 

 

From Tom Ridge:

omg guys my fav awards ever is the academey awards b/c liek all of the best acters are there and they are their own real ppl, not the fake ppl they play in moo-vs.

 

evry1 saw them i kno so i wont talk about them 2 much i just want to say that i think it is a terrorist movie the 1 that has the two fags in it. i dont think they should b in this country and i think its wrong and they shoulndt get marriaged.

 

ok so now that i said that i can talk about other stuff that is really cool

 

o btw sry bout not updating for awhile i kno its kind of a joke, rt?

 

so i need 2 tell you guys about my newest FAV BAND EVER there names are imortal tekneek. he is the best rapper ever ever ever

 

normally i dont listen to rap but i like this guy b/c he hates gay ppl almost aas much as me here is a verse from a song i like:

 

get the picture nigga, I'm the best of both worlds

without the hidden camera, and the 12 year old girl

at stage at your basics, you aren't half the man that I am

I throw your gang sign up, and then I'll spit on my hand

give me a hundred grand, give me your watch, give me your chain

that's your girl, bitch get over here, give me some brain

I'll bust of on her face, and right after the segment

she'll propably rub it in her pussy, trying to get herself pregnant

 

i kno isnt he smart rt?

 

lissen to this other one that I liek

 

but you know what the fuck I think is just pathetic and gay

when niggaz speculate what the fuck 'Pac would say

you don't know shit, about a dead mans perspective

and talking shit will get your neckbone disconnected

disrespected niggaz don't show no love

why you trying to be hardcore, you fucking homo-thug

and don't be sensitive and angry at the shit that I wrote

cuz if you can take a fucking dick, you can take a joke

I choke your friends in front of you, to prove that you fallen off

 

he is so smart and i wish i was kewl enough to shoot gay people and strangel their friends in front of them.

 

OMG AND HERE IS MY FAVROITE!!

 

they wrapped her shirt around her head and knocked her onto the floor

this is it kid now you got your chance to be raw

so Billy oaked her up and grapped the chick by the hair

and dragged her into a lobby that had nobody there

she struggled hard but they forced her to go up the stairs

they got to the roof and then held her down on the ground

screaming shut the fuck up and stop moving around

the shirt covered her face, but she screamed the clouts

so Billy stomped on the bitch, until he broken her jaw

the dirty bastards knew exactly what they were doing

they kicked her until they cracked her ribs and she stopped moving

blood leaking through the cloth, she cried silently

and then they all proceeded to rape her violently

Billy was meant to go first, but each of them took a turn

ripping her up, and choking her until her throat burned

a broken jaw mumbled for god but they weren't concerned

when they were done and she was lying bloody, broken and broos

one of them niggaz pulled out a brand new twenty-two

they told him that she was a witness of what she'd gone through

and if he killed her he was guaranteed a spot in the crew

he thought about it for a minute, she was practicly dead

and so he leaned over and put the gun right to her head

 

(Sample from "Survival of the Fittest" by Mobb Deep)

I'm falling and I can't turn back

I'm falling and I can't turn back

 

[Verse 4]

Right before he pulled the trigger, and ended her life

he thought about the cold pain with the platinum and ice

and he felt strong standing along with his new brothers

cocked the gat to her head, and pulled back the shirt cover

but what he saw made him start the cringine studder

cuz he was starring into the eyes of his own mother

she looked back at him and cried, cause he had forsaken her

she cried more painfully, than when they were raping her

his whole world stopped, he couldn't even contiplate

his corruption had succesfully changed his fate

and he remembered how his mom used to come home late

working hard for nothing, cause now what was he worth

he turned away from the woman that had once given him birth

and crying out to the sky cause he was lonely and scared

but only the devil responded, cause god wasn't there

and right then he knew what it was to be empty and cold

and so he jumped off the roof and died with no soul

they say death take you to a better place but I doubt it

after that they killed his mother, and never spoke about it

and listen cause the story that I'm telling is true

cuz I was there with Billy Jacobs and I raped his mom to

and now the devil follows me everywhere that I go

 

I think its rly kewl that he gets away with raping people and stuff b/c i think women are 2 cocky these days!!!!

 

OMG i dont like what he says about the president but i kno he jus does that for fans b/c why would he rape ppl and kill gay ppl and not liek the president?

 

i also liek RHCP (see my other post LMAO!) and I like the flaming lips.

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Many writers and thinkers see a kind of informed political engagement, even a revolutionary potential, in rap and hip-hop. They couldn’t be more wrong. By reinforcing the stereotypes that long hindered blacks, and by teaching young blacks that a thuggish adversarial stance is the properly “authentic” response to a presumptively racist society, rap retards black success.

 

 

McWhorter 03 (John H. McWhorter, How Hip-Hop Holds Blacks Back

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html, 6/6/06)

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As noted, the mega-best sellers of rap are often consumed by young middle-class whites and it is not clear what effects rap has on these groups. During 1994, MTV advertised a rap-oriented journal called “Vibe,” and the advertisement appeared to transform rap into a consumer fetish for buppies, yuppies, and young consumers. And the type of rap played on MTV, BET, and other television networks is usually the more watered-down pop version of rap. Thus, rap can thus easily become a commodity fetish and a mode of assimilation. Rap has also been assimilated to advertising with shoes, cars, and even food storage ads (the Reynolds [w]rap campaign), have used rap techniques. Yet all popular commodities have a double-edged, or even multiple, effects. The commodity rap can circulate oppositional thought and action, and can empower people to struggle against the system of oppression. And it can function merely as titillation and entertainment and be coopted for conservative ends.

 

Douglas Kellner is a professor of Cultural Studies at UCLA. “Media Culture: Cultural Studies, Identity, and politics between the Modern and the Postmodern,” p.189. 1995

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://mosdef.funky4u.com/2005/10/10/your-thoughts-on-the-mos-def-denali-commercial/

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what songs are these?

its a good question!

and i forgot jordan sorry.. please forgive me

no problem, it's cool.

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what songs are these?

 

God, Phil, you seem to have a problem with academic honesty regarding debate..... (sorry)

 

Phil's is Dead Prez, it's still bigger than hip hop, track 16ish on lets get free (i think)

 

so i need 2 tell you guys about my newest FAV BAND EVER there names are imortal tekneek. he is the best rapper ever ever ever

 

normally i dont listen to rap but i like this guy b/c he hates gay ppl almost aas much as me here is a verse from a song i like:

 

Just in case anyone, for some horrible reason, hasn't heard Immortal Technique, the band isn't actually one of those sexist homophobic rap bands.

 

And to the people who criticise rap for it's materialism - "The message and the money", Immortal Technique, Revolutionary Volume 2

 

Before we go any further..

 

I would like to send a message to all the underground mc's out

there, working hard

 

The time has come to realize you networked in a market

 

and stop being a fucking commodity

 

And if you didn't understand what I've just said then you

already waiting to get fucked

 

For example; a lot of these promoters are doing showcases

 

throwing events, and not even paying the workhorses

 

They trying get us to rock for the love of hiphop or rock for

the exposure

 

Now look man, I don't mind doing a guest spot for my peeps

 

Or, or, or doing a benefit show, but don't lie to me pussy

 

Coz I find out I'm paying your lightbill, I'm fucking you up

nigga

 

Besides, you ain't doing this for the love, you ain't doing it

for the exposure

 

you charging up to 10$ at the door, and you ain't tryin to give

me shit??

 

So wait a minute... you want me to go shopping, cook the food,

and put it in front of you

 

but you won't let me sit down and eat with you? The fuck is

that?

 

Niggaz need to start playing their position, man. Just coz you

throw a party

 

a hosting event or an open mic or a showcase, or a battle

 

that don't make you important at all

 

Without me and everybody like me out there

 

you ain't nutting but a good idea, motherfucker

 

So stay in your place

 

 

 

And to all these bitchass saronayas who are too lazy to come up

with a way to sell records..

 

That they keep recycling marketing schemes and imagery

 

C'mon..

 

There is a market for everything man

 

There is a market for pet psychologists nigga. There is a market

for twisted

 

shitfetish video's. For nipplerings, for riverdancing, for

chocolate cupboard roaches..

 

But you can't find one for cultured hardcore reality and

hiphop?

 

People like you: the house nigga executives

 

and them rich motherfuckers that own you; you the motherfucking

machine man!

 

You and all these niggaz talking about the same shit

 

with the same flow over the same candy-ass beats

 

But I refuse the feed the machine

 

And Im not giving any magazine money

 

So maybe my album won't get 5 mics, or double-x-l's, or 5

discs

 

Whatever man, fuck it

 

But then again; you don't own me, and none of you niggaz ever

will

 

If I'm feeling what you fight for I'm rolling with you to the

end

 

But if not, then FUCK YOU!

 

And the more that mc's, producers, dj's

 

and independent labels start to grasp the conceptuality

 

of what their contribution to the business of hiphop is

 

rather then just the music - the more the industry will be

forced to change

 

 

 

Oh, heh, and one last thing;

 

 

 

You don't have to agree with everything I've said

 

But don't ever be condescending to me

 

Picking up your wack ass friends that rhyme and being like

 

'Ow yeah, Immortal Technique - he's aaiight'

 

No nigga..

 

Your mom is pussy, that's aaiight, ok..

 

Your peoples getting shot dead in the street, that's aaiight

 

I'm the motherfucking Immortal Technique nigga! The message and

the money!

 

And you ain't got either!

 

Remember that!

 

Punk ass motherfucker..

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i appreciate that south debaters have some background knowledge of their hip hop. all those van rides listening to richard murphy's kill whitey mix payed off. dont expect too many changes in the play list for next years drives.

 

one of my favorites:

 

"the devil crept into heaven

god over slept on the seventh

the new world order was born

on september eleventh"

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it like all other forms of expression is a window into your soul and experience. and sometimes, homophobic and misogynistic describes that window.

 

instead of just dropping a bunch of rhymes, can someone answer this question. i'm actually curious to see what gets said.

 

oh, and consider uc santa cruz in 2007. mountains forest and beach within 15 minutes. not many places like that...and we're the slugs...

 

oh, and immortal technique don't hate gay people, he hate people. kinda like my guy, jon dingel.

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hip hop is, first a foremost, a culture. it is a culture that started in post industrial nyc with breaking, tagging, and flowing and represented a unique artistic and emotional outlet for youths in inner-city neighborhoods. from a factual standpoint, it is a form of musical expression that consists of someone flowing (rapping) with beats beneath it, and more recently certain artists (rjd2, dj shadow, etc.) have done without the flow. at the same time, however, hip hop is so much more than that.

 

at it's core, hip-hop is about awareness. similar to the tags on nyc trains that spread their messages as they drove through the city, hip hop is about spreading both messages and experiences. in one sense, listening to hip hop can make one more aware of the world around one as well as the individuals that comprise it. in the context of the debate community (or any primarily white, primarily affluent community) hip hop can serve as a crucial tool in helping individuals step outside of their bubble and learn about experiences and ways of being in the world that are radically different than their own.

 

the easiest way to understand how powerful hip hop is would be simply to read read paulo friere's a pedagogy of the oppressed. unlike philosophy and academia which, while they are often focused on making individuals more aware of the world, these philosophers and academians are all writing from a relatively similar point of view: one that is relatively affluent. hip hop, on the contrary, comes from the point of view of the oppressed. the crux of friere's oft-cited argument is that changing the status of the oppressed must come the from oppressed themselves, since they are most familiar which the situation. and it is from this notion that hip hop gathers its ideology.

 

hip hop, first and foremost, draws (even if unknowlingly) on critique as action (ala Foucault). at the most basic level, hip hop is critique--a critique of the status quo in a way that appeals to the masses, or at the very least, other individuals who are oppressed. it is founded on the hope that listening to a rap song that exposes certain experiences, or preaches a certain message, will change the way one thinks about a given issue and accordingly, the way one acts with regards to it.

 

but hip hop has multiple functions for many people and to say that hip hop is purely critique, etc. is a misnomer. many complain about hip hop's misogynistic lyrics, sexism, reinforcement of racial stereotypes (via music videos and "n-bombs), to which we should respond the way malcolm x woulds "who cares--by any means neccessary." that is, by any means neccessary, get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto. when you cant step outside without being at risk, when you see your relatives addicted to crack and your friends shot, hip hop can be a tool. not neccessarily a tool of awareness, but as a way for the oppressed to change their current situation. sure this views change and success primarily in terms of money, but as dre says (i promise to limit myself to this one section of his verse):

 

I moved out of the hood for good, you blame me?

Niggas ain't made me if niggas they can't be.

But niggas can't hit niggas they can't see.

I'm out of sight, now I'm out of they dang reach.

How would you feel if niggas wanted you killed?

You'd probably move to a new house on a new hill.

And choose a new spot if niggas wanted you shot ("The Watcher")

 

sure, it would be better if getting out of the ghetto could be done without often materialist and sexist lyrics, but the fact is THAT IS WHAT SELLS, and that says a lot more about our society than it does about hip hop artists.

 

commodification? commodification is key to preventing suffering sometimes. if its a capitalistic propaganda-esque shit, if it prevents suffering, death, "gets you out the hood," its worth it in my opinion.

 

for those of you that have an interest in the political and otherwise nature of the hip hop, i would recommend the following:

pedagogy of the oppressed, paulo friere (not about hip hop, but key to understanding it)

black noise: rap music and black culture in contemporary america, tricia rose

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last time I checked, Gil Scott Heron isn't hip-hop.

 

He's good.

 

He ain't hip hop.

That was kinda the point, but:

dedicated to all the women and men struggling to keep their self-respect in this climate of misogyny,money-worship, and mass production of hip-hop's illegitimate child. "hip-pop '~ and especially to Gil Scoff-Heron, friend. living legend and proto-rapper, who wrote

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. much respect.

 

your revolution will not happen between these thighs

your revolution will not happen between these thighs

 

the real revolution ain't about booty size the Versaces you buys or the Lexus you drives

 

and though we've lost Biggie Smalls your Notorious revolution

will never allow you to lace no lyrical douche in my bush

your revolution will not be you killing me softly with Fugees

your revolution won't knock me up without no ring and produce li'l future MCs

because that revolution will not happen between these thighs

 

your revolution will not find me in the

backseat of Jeep with LL hard as hell doin' it & doin it & doin' it well

 

your revolution will not be you smackin' it up, flippin' it, or rubbin' it down nor will it take you downtown or humpin' around

because that revolution will not happen between these thighs

 

your revolution will not have me singing ain't no nigger like the one I got

your revolution will no be you sending me for no drip drip VD shot

 

your revolution will not involve me feeling your rise or helping you fantasize

because that revolution will not happen between these thighs

and no, my Jamaican brother, you revolution

will not make me feel bombastic and really fantastic

have you groping in the dark for that rubber wrapped in plastic

 

you will not be touching your lips to my triple dip of french vanilla butter pecan chocolate deluxe or having Akinyele's dream, a six-foot blowjob machine

 

you wanna subjugate your queen;

think I should put that in my mouth just 'cause you made a few bucks

 

your revolution will not be me tossing my weave

making believe i'm some caviar-eating, ghetto mafia clown

or me givin' up my behind just so I can get signed 'and maybe have someone else write my rhymes?

I'm Sarah Jones, not Foxy Brown

your revolution makes me wonder, where could we go

if we could drop the empty pursuit of props

and the ego revolt back to our Roots,

use a little Common sense on a Quest to make love De La Soul, no pretense...but

 

your revolution will not be you flexing your little sex and status to express what you feel;

your revolution will not happen between these thighs will not happen between these thighs

will not be you shaking and me faking between these thighs because the real revolution, when it finally comes, is gon' be real

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hip hop is, first a foremost, a culture. it is a culture that started in post industrial nyc with breaking, tagging, and flowing and represented a unique artistic and emotional outlet for youths in inner-city neighborhoods. from a factual standpoint, it is a form of musical expression that consists of someone flowing (rapping) with beats beneath it, and more recently certain artists (rjd2, dj shadow, etc.) have done without the flow. at the same time, however, hip hop is so much more than that.

 

at it's core, hip-hop is about awareness. similar to the tags on nyc trains that spread their messages as they drove through the city, hip hop is about spreading both messages and experiences. in one sense, listening to hip hop can make one more aware of the world around one as well as the individuals that comprise it. in the context of the debate community (or any primarily white, primarily affluent community) hip hop can serve as a crucial tool in helping individuals step outside of their bubble and learn about experiences and ways of being in the world that are radically different than their own.

 

the easiest way to understand how powerful hip hop is would be simply to read read paulo friere's a pedagogy of the oppressed. unlike philosophy and academia which, while they are often focused on making individuals more aware of the world, these philosophers and academians are all writing from a relatively similar point of view: one that is relatively affluent. hip hop, on the contrary, comes from the point of view of the oppressed. the crux of friere's oft-cited argument is that changing the status of the oppressed must come the from oppressed themselves, since they are most familiar which the situation. and it is from this notion that hip hop gathers its ideology.

 

hip hop, first and foremost, draws (even if unknowlingly) on critique as action (ala Foucault). at the most basic level, hip hop is critique--a critique of the status quo in a way that appeals to the masses, or at the very least, other individuals who are oppressed. it is founded on the hope that listening to a rap song that exposes certain experiences, or preaches a certain message, will change the way one thinks about a given issue and accordingly, the way one acts with regards to it.

 

but hip hop has multiple functions for many people and to say that hip hop is purely critique, etc. is a misnomer. many complain about hip hop's misogynistic lyrics, sexism, reinforcement of racial stereotypes (via music videos and "n-bombs), to which we should respond the way malcolm x woulds "who cares--by any means neccessary." that is, by any means neccessary, get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto. when you cant step outside without being at risk, when you see your relatives addicted to crack and your friends shot, hip hop can be a tool. not neccessarily a tool of awareness, but as a way for the oppressed to change their current situation. sure this views change and success primarily in terms of money, but as dre says (i promise to limit myself to this one section of his verse):

 

I moved out of the hood for good, you blame me?

Niggas ain't made me if niggas they can't be.

But niggas can't hit niggas they can't see.

I'm out of sight, now I'm out of they dang reach.

How would you feel if niggas wanted you killed?

You'd probably move to a new house on a new hill.

And choose a new spot if niggas wanted you shot ("The Watcher")

 

sure, it would be better if getting out of the ghetto could be done without often materialist and sexist lyrics, but the fact is THAT IS WHAT SELLS, and that says a lot more about our society than it does about hip hop artists.

 

commodification? commodification is key to preventing suffering sometimes. if its a capitalistic propaganda-esque shit, if it prevents suffering, death, "gets you out the hood," its worth it in my opinion.

 

for those of you that have an interest in the political and otherwise nature of the hip hop, i would recommend the following:

pedagogy of the oppressed, paulo friere (not about hip hop, but key to understanding it)

black noise: rap music and black culture in contemporary america, tricia rose

i think you assume that hip hop is single movement, and that because this movement is so important oppressed groups it should be in no way down-sized or critiqued. however, hip hop culture is formed of a diverse group. not every hip hop artist/song has the same goal ("get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto."). affluent whites are not the only people critiquing hip hop (case and point: this post), you should recognize peoples' ability and right to have a say in the culture that is representing them. they aren't "counter-revolutionaries" and their points are as crucial to their freedom/etc. as that of anyone else. also, (this doesn't apply as much to you as others) i think that quoting hip hop songs on this thread isn't an effective way of proving hip hop is or isn't this or that. no one song had so large an affect on any movement within the hip hop culture that lyrics from that song can be used as evidence in support of an argument about hip hop culture as a whole. and on your representation of malcom x, i don't think it would be his position that sexist/homophobic hip hop is just fine because it's hip hop and that's what matters, you ignore the alternative of hip hop that doesn't have those qualities. critiquing sexist/homophobic hip hop doesn't mean the end of hip hop, it means the end of sexist/homophobic hip hop, but hip hop would still continue, and as a better force too. also, i think a perm of standpoint epistimology makes a lot more since than your argument.

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Hip Hop: The Voice of the Oppressed

 

That was a workshop i went too. And i think that the Abyssinnian Creole would disagree with 10 of the voters.

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I don't like talking about hip hop as a soul breathing form of expression. R&B was invented for that. However, what I like about hip hop are those who set the standard. I can't believe no one is talking about Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Atmosphere, Living Legends, Blue Scholars, and others who make hip hop different because of educated lyrics and lovely flows. These guys are where its at. I don't know about you guys, but I am going to see Atmosphere at Bumbershoot, and I recommend all to do the same.

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"I don't like talking about hip hop as a soul breathing form of expression. R&B was invented for that."

 

wow. i think you are so terribly mistaken. MAJORLY. Hip Hop is expression, and it is soul breathing. ahhhhhhh

 

"However, what I like about hip hop are those who set the standard. I can't believe no one is talking about Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Atmosphere, Living Legends, Blue Scholars, and others who make hip hop different because of educated lyrics and lovely flows."

 

First, you cant set the standard, and be different.

Second, the standards are bad.

 

"These guys are where its at. I don't know about you guys, but I am going to see Atmosphere at Bumbershoot, and I recommend all to do the same."

 

Or how about Abyssinian Creole, or Christina Orbe or Gabriel Teodros

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I don't like talking about hip hop as a soul breathing form of expression. R&B was invented for that. However, what I like about hip hop are those who set the standard. I can't believe no one is talking about Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Atmosphere, Living Legends, Blue Scholars, and others who make hip hop different because of educated lyrics and lovely flows. These guys are where its at. I don't know about you guys, but I am going to see Atmosphere at Bumbershoot, and I recommend all to do the same.

atmosphere is terrible

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YOU KIDS DON'T KNOW WHAT REAL HIP HOP IS. EVER HEARD OF CAGE? THIS CAT IS OFF THE MOTHA EFFING HOOK. HE DROPS DOPE RHYMES ABOUT SHAT THAT REALLY MATTERS, CHECK THESE LYRICS FROM HIS SONG "AMONG THE SLEEP"

 

I'm seconds from meeting with the minds berg had to offer

And feed my thoughts to Christ to the altar

I wake up on a red floor

Axing a dead whore

My dick chewed up, why I let this bitch give me head for?

Pigs tryin' ta kick down the door, I'm out for me

Opened the sliding glass door and hopped off the balcony

Fell 30 flights to ? on 10th Av.

Landed on a FedEx-disguised meth lab

And after it blew up

I woke up and threw up

Stuck my hand in my pants, my shit ain't chewed up

Wiped the puke from my face

Then leaved this place

With a 4-5 in the waist

At an elitist pace

No breeding space

I step out and show face

Within 3 minutes I'm approached for H

Then a shotgun to neck, now loose the weapon

And my scull fragments painted the sky for seconds

 

HOW ILL IS THAT? NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE PEOPLES ARMY OR HOW RICH WHITE TEENAGERS CAN RELATE TO IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE, LISTENING TO HIP HOP ABOUT WET DREAMS GONE TERRIBLY WRONG IS WHERE THE FUTURE IS AT. ACCORDING TO DEF JUX RECORDS:

 

"Cage is the most recent addition to the Definitive Jux roster, following years of underground success on labels ranging from Fondle Em, High Times and Eastern Conference. Cage’s 2005 album “Hell’s Winter” was a landmark release for both him as an artist and for the label. The records production, which included musical performances from some of hip hop and indy rock’s creative luminaries, created a world of it’s own in which Cage explored and exorcised his incredibly troubled childhood and adolescence. The result is both beautiful and pain-full, a coming of age record that truly opens doors."

 

GET A LIFE YOU FUCKING NERDS. ISN'T IT BAD ENOUGH MOST OF YOU WILL DIE VIRGINS? DON'T DRAG HIP HOP DOWN WITH YOU.

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ha ha ha.. most of us will die virgins, coming from the god david thompson

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Penci:

 

"however, hip hop culture is formed of a diverse group. not every hip hop artist/song has the same goal ("get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto.")."

 

i never claimed that. my post outlines multple "goals" of hip hop--awareness, "get out the ghetto," artistry, etc. and certainly does not try to be totalizing on the goals of various groups of the hip hop movement. rather, it suggests a few possibilities while leaving the door open for others.

 

"no one song had so large an affect on any movement within the hip hop culture that lyrics from that song can be used as evidence in support of an argument about hip hop culture as a whole."

 

wrong. read some books on hip hop culture--authors (who are experts on this subject) routinely reference both song lyrics and how single songs have made visible impacts in the culture.

 

"and on your representation of malcom x, i don't think it would be his position that sexist/homophobic hip hop is just fine because it's hip hop and that's what matters"

 

why? warrants please. claims without warrants are a logical fallacy...

 

"you ignore the alternative of hip hop that doesn't have those qualities."

 

i'm not advocating this style of rap--in a perfect world there would only be hip hop that "doesn't have those qualities." the reality is that this is not the case--hip hop with "those qualities" has always been and will always be in hip hop--we need to deal with that, not construct imaginary worlds in which hip hop is "clean" so to speak.

 

"critiquing sexist/homophobic hip hop doesn't mean the end of hip hop, it means the end of sexist/homophobic hip hop, but hip hop would still continue, and as a better force too."

 

right, in a perfect world that would be the case. but that assumes that your little critique somehow manages to transform the entire music industry--good luck with that.

 

"also, i think a perm of standpoint epistimology makes a lot more since than your argument."

 

what the fuck is a "perm of standpoint epistemology"? don't use big words if you can't even spell then right. what does this even fuckin mean?

 

david:

i saw cage at the paid dues fest in la. that's some good shit. where are you going to school next year btw?

 

oh yeah--btw:

atmosphere is incredibly overrated and not that tight.

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kritikingforlife

 

i concede your first two points,

 

" "however, hip hop culture is formed of a diverse group. not every hip hop artist/song has the same goal ("get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto.")."

 

i never claimed that. my post outlines multple "goals" of hip hop--awareness, "get out the ghetto," artistry, etc. and certainly does not try to be totalizing on the goals of various groups of the hip hop movement. rather, it suggests a few possibilities while leaving the door open for others.

 

'no one song had so large an affect on any movement within the hip hop culture that lyrics from that song can be used as evidence in support of an argument about hip hop culture as a whole.'

 

wrong. read some books on hip hop culture--authors (who are experts on this subject) routinely reference both song lyrics and how single songs have made visible impacts in the culture."

 

i was primarily concerned with how you represented the utility of hip hop, not it's function as a culture, and also i probably haven't read as much as you about the effect of indivdual songs on the culture.

 

but then you say:

" 'and on your representation of malcom x, i don't think it would be his position that sexist/homophobic hip hop is just fine because it's hip hop and that's what matters'

 

why? warrants please. claims without warrants are a logical fallacy..."

 

first, your orignal claim is warrantless:

"many complain about hip hop's misogynistic lyrics, sexism, reinforcement of racial stereotypes (via music videos and "n-bombs), to which we should respond the way malcolm x woulds "who cares--by any means neccessary." that is, by any means neccessary, get yourself out of the hood, out of the ghetto. when you cant step outside without being at risk, when you see your relatives addicted to crack and your friends shot, hip hop can be a tool. not neccessarily a tool of awareness, but as a way for the oppressed to change their current situation."

 

although you provide a warrant for why someone would value hip hop as a tool, you lack a warrant for why malcom x would respond to critiques of hip hop the way you say he would.

 

second, you cut it off, it continues:

"you ignore the alternative of hip hop that doesn't have those qualities."

 

you're right, i don't really have a warrant, i was simply speculating that x's response probably wouldn't be "who cares," and that and endorsement of hip hop isn't necissarily contradictory to critiquing it, i just didn't understand why you though he wouldn't be concerned with the sexism and homophobia.

 

then you say:

 

" 'you ignore the alternative of hip hop that doesn't have those qualities.'

 

i'm not advocating this style of rap--in a perfect world there would only be hip hop that "doesn't have those qualities." the reality is that this is not the case--hip hop with "those qualities" has always been and will always be in hip hop--we need to deal with that, not construct imaginary worlds in which hip hop is "clean" so to speak."

 

i think that your characterization of the world where your argument thrives as "real", and the world where my argument thrives as "imaginary", is just a logical fallacy used to justify your rejection of critiques of hip hop. neither world is real or imaginary. of course there will always be sexist/homophobic hip hop but that doesn't mean that having a problem with the amount that is out there, and wanting to say something about it is a utopian wet dream. i don't strive to live in a lala-land where everyone loves gays and patriarchy is unheard of (although that'd be sweet!), however, that doesn't mean that wanting to move away from those aspects of the culture is whimsical. culture is dynamic, hip hop doesn't have to be the way it is now forever, and it more than likely won't.

 

then you say:

 

" 'critiquing sexist/homophobic hip hop doesn't mean the end of hip hop, it means the end of sexist/homophobic hip hop, but hip hop would still continue, and as a better force too.'

 

right, in a perfect world that would be the case. but that assumes that your little critique somehow manages to transform the entire music industry--good luck with that."

 

i'll admit i was using idyllic language, which probably mischaracterized my argument, my bad. however, i don't think that my critique is "little" or insignificant. change in music is possible. when was the last time you heard blatently anti-black language in music thrive in the mainstream, as it once did? im sorry you happen to be wearing a pair of status quo lenses that make a future different from the present impossible to imagine, but i'd suggest removing them.

 

then you say:

 

" 'also, i think a perm of standpoint epistimology makes a lot more since than your argument.'

 

what the fuck is a "perm of standpoint epistemology"? don't use big words if you can't even spell then right. what does this even fuckin mean?

 

again i was being lazy with my language, my bad.

 

first, what i was saying is that when you said:

 

"these philosophers and academians are all writing from a relatively similar point of view: one that is relatively affluent. hip hop, on the contrary, comes from the point of view of the oppressed. the crux of friere's oft-cited argument is that changing the status of the oppressed must come the from oppressed themselves, since they are most familiar which the situation."

 

is that it makes more sense to me to look at oppression from both the view of the oppressed and the oppressor rather than replacing the "oppressorcentric view" with the "oppressedcentric view" because oppression comes from both sides. it takes more than one group of ppl for oppression to occur, so i don't see how looking at oppression from any one group of ppls' point of view is going to solve it.

 

second, you said "don't use big words if you can't even spell then right." but my advice to you is "don't use small words if you can't even spell THEM right."

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Hip hop is more than jus a type of music. Rap is the music..RnB is the music...Even regaeton and regae..All of these are part of hip hop. Hip Hop is the culture. The style, issues, music, swagga(or the way u carry urself) all of that is hip hop. Alotta people people talk shit about it and say its ignorant and violent. But thats only if u make it that way. There are plenty positive aspects to hip hop..Iight im dun..UNOZ

 

PS

***RAP SONG OF THE DAY IS: Kanye West and Paul Wall-Drive Slow***

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