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Kritiks of national service

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whoa dude you have evidence that the peace corps sterilizes people in third world nations and helps out the cia?

 

god damn

i got negative reputation for this post, but i wasn't being sarcastic, jerk

 

those are good internals homie

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does anybody care to articulate the details of how spanos links to this topic?

 

PROBLEM/SOLUTION

 

DUH!

 

but seriously, all of these orginizations that are uniquely western are going into all of these other countries to do what they do. I dont really see how anyone would argue how spanos doesnt link.

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PROBLEM/SOLUTION

 

DUH!

 

but seriously, all of these orginizations that are uniquely western are going into all of these other countries to do what they do. I dont really see how anyone would argue how spanos doesnt link.

 

its not so much that spanos doesnt link, that people just dont really want to run it, wes. :P

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PROBLEM/SOLUTION

 

DUH!

 

but seriously, all of these orginizations that are uniquely western are going into all of these other countries to do what they do. I dont really see how anyone would argue how spanos doesnt link.

prove a link for learn and serve america, which is a strictly national service organization...it does not go into other countries to do what they do...prove the link pleez

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prove a link for learn and serve america, which is a strictly national service organization...it does not go into other countries to do what they do...prove the link pleez

 

 

PROBLEM/SOLUTION
.

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Zizek and Nietzsche both write of bureaucracies and militaries, it could be interesting because these writings fall around the same lines. Zizek's can be found on the internet and Nietzsche's is in one of his shorter essay's and there might be some parts in the will to power.

 

Noam Chomsky is extremly critical of the stregnth of the American Armed Forces (at least when I seen him speak he was, I've never read anything by that quack) he could probably have a few strong links into something. He only puts out a book ever year and they seem to be fairly long... somethings got to be there.

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Chomsky supports a draft because he says that citizen armies can't be effectively used to fight colonial wars. February 2, 2005 After the Election

The Future of Iraq and the US Occupation By NOAM CHOMSKY Counterpunch

 

"I think that conscription is going to be a last resort. The reason is the Vietnam experience. The Vietnam experience, I think, is the first time in the history of European imperialism that an imperial power tried to fight a colonial war with a citizen's army. I mean the British didn't do it, and the French had the Foreign Legion In colonial wars, civilians are just no good at. Colonial wars are too brutal and vicious and murderous. You just can't take kids off the street and have them fight that kind of war. You need trained killers, like the French Foreign Legion."

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Chomsky supports a draft because he says that citizen armies can't be effectively used to fight colonial wars. February 2, 2005 After the Election

The Future of Iraq and the US Occupation By NOAM CHOMSKY Counterpunch

 

"I think that conscription is going to be a last resort. The reason is the Vietnam experience. The Vietnam experience, I think, is the first time in the history of European imperialism that an imperial power tried to fight a colonial war with a citizen's army. I mean the British didn't do it, and the French had the Foreign Legion In colonial wars, civilians are just no good at. Colonial wars are too brutal and vicious and murderous. You just can't take kids off the street and have them fight that kind of war. You need trained killers, like the French Foreign Legion."

Is that one of your serious thoughts? If so, trade your brain in for a carrot.

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It's not my thought at all. I'm not agreeing with what Chomsky said. I was merely posting a cite from Chomsky in response to the statement that Chomsky is extremly critical of the stregnth of the American Armed Forces. He is extremely critical. But he supports a draft, at least under certain circumstances.

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No, he's right, Tanner. Chomsky supports a draft/citizen's army because he thinks they're less willing to serve state interests than a volunteer/professional army, and they better reflect society's values at large.

 

From an interview in Democracy Now!, late 2004:

AMY GOODMAN: Noam Chomsky, speaking on Sunday in Princeton, New Jersey. Afterwards, he was asked a series of question, one of them was, would the draft be reinstated.

 

NOAM CHOMSKY: I think it's extremely unlikely. I should tell you this as a word of personal background. I was very much involved in the resistance movement in the 1960's. In fact, I was just barely -- the only reason I missed a long jail sentence is because the Tet Offensive came along and the trials were called off. So I was very much involved in the resistance, but I was never against the draft. I disagreed with a lot of my friends and associates on that, for a very good reason, I think at least as nobody seems to agree. In my view, if there's going to be an army, I think it ought to be a citizen's army. Now, here I do agree with some people, the top brass, they don't want a citizen's army. They want a mercenary army, what we call a volunteer army. A mercenary army of the disadvantaged. And in fact, in the Vietnam war, the U.S. military realized, they had made a very bad mistake. I mean, for the first time I think ever in the history of European imperialism, including us, they had used a citizen's army to fight a vicious, brutal, colonial war, and civilians just cannot do that kind of a thing. For that, you need the French foreign legion, the Gurkhas or something like that. Every predecessor has used mercenaries, often drawn from the country that they're attacking like England ran India with Indian mercenaries. You take them from one place and send them to kill people in the other place. That's the standard way to run imperial wars. They're just too brutal and violent and murderous. Civilians are not going to be able to do it for very long. What happened was, the army started falling apart. One of the reasons that the army was withdrawn was because the top military wanted it out of there. They were afraid they were not going to have an army anymore. Soldiers were fragging officer. The whole thing was falling apart. They were on drugs. And that’s why I think that they're not going to have a draft. That's why I’m in favor of it. If there's going to be an army that will fight brutal, colonial wars, and that's the only likely kind of war, I’m not talking about the militarization of space and that kind of thing, I mean ground wars, it ought to be a citizen's army so that the attitudes of the society are reflected in the military.

 

If you're looking for a kritik of national service on the leftist side, look up the writings of Eugene Debs or Alexander Berkman from when they were resisting the WW1 draft.

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did i just get served, ah well...cool

 

Well regardless.. Spanos can still get a pretty strong link on other portions of the topic.

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It would seem that Ayn Rand's thoughts (collectively known as "objectivism") would be a good fit for the Negative on a national service resolution.

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It would seem that Ayn Rand's thoughts (collectively known as "objectivism") would be a good fit for the Negative on a national service resolution.

ewww

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ewww

 

Not my favorite argument either, but one of my better teams went through an entire year on a social services topic (homeless) arguing nothing BUT objectivism on the Neg, and that was in the pre-K days when they had to make it a disad. They still won over 75% of their Neg rounds.

 

And lets face it.....when you have teams who like to run Spanos every round, the bar on acceptability isn't very high to begin with.:rolleyes:

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Not my favorite argument either, but one of my better teams went through an entire year on a social services topic (homeless) arguing nothing BUT objectivism on the Neg, and that was in the pre-K days when they had to make it a disad. They still won over 75% of their Neg rounds.

 

And lets face it.....when you have teams who like to run Spanos every round, the bar on acceptability isn't very high to begin with.:rolleyes:

 

You want to throw down spanos?

I'll beast you.

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It is a sad commentary on debate that Rand is routinely dismissed by the same folks who ardently embrace Spanos...

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It is a sad commentary on debate that Rand is routinely dismissed by the same folks who ardently embrace Spanos...

Seriously Shuman... Don't these kids know they're both stupid? I mean really....

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It is a sad commentary on debate that Rand is routinely dismissed by the same folks who ardently embrace Spanos...

Im not a spanos advocate, but Rand is just TERRIBLE.

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It is a sad commentary on debate that Rand is routinely dismissed by the same folks who ardently embrace Spanos...

 

QFA

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