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that wheeler dude

Neg Strats against Quarantines?

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Do you have any more details on this aff such as plan text or advantages?

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ok heres a really good T detain w/o charge, Charge = crime

 

the people who are detained based on asumption that they have the bird flu are not criminals, there is no criminal " charge" to charge them with

 

Run this T, maybe a biopower ( Focault or Agamben) K with a link to fear, it links well because even if the aff " solves" for this instance of biopower( asuming they have a biopower adv) they still perpetuate the system of state control, the state can not ever " solve" biopower. The alternative solves and is better than the aff

 

Agent CP with ptx

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ok heres a really good T detain w/o charge, Charge = crime

the people who are detained based on asumption that they have the bird flu are not criminals, there is no criminal " charge" to charge them with

 

im personally not a big fan of this argument the way people run it. it think it would be alot stronger if you say something along the lines of that definition but explain it like 'there is no possible way for these people TO be charged, which i guess is basically the same thing you were probably trying to reference

 

 

Run this T, maybe a biopower ( Focault or Agamben) K with a link to fear, it links well because even if the aff " solves" for this instance of biopower( asuming they have a biopower adv) they still perpetuate the system of state control, the state can not ever " solve" biopower. The alternative solves and is better than the aff

 

i like this idea because you are absolutly right that the alternative would almost always be able to solve for the entirety of the critical advanteges of case. however you wouldnt be able to solve the other advantege i.e. economic collapse or any other state based action advantege, but if you are running agamben with whatever being alt then it is compatable with... DeDev lol

 

Agent CP with ptx

 

impossible. authority comes from executive order 13295, section 1 , subsection c meaning that the president is the only one with the full authority to override that. a court ruling or a specific congress legislation wouldnt be suffice...

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im personally not a big fan of this argument the way people run it. it think it would be alot stronger if you say something along the lines of that definition but explain it like 'there is no possible way for these people TO be charged, which i guess is basically the same thing you were probably trying to reference

 

 

 

 

i like this idea because you are absolutly right that the alternative would almost always be able to solve for the entirety of the critical advanteges of case. however you wouldnt be able to solve the other advantege i.e. economic collapse or any other state based action advantege, but if you are running agamben with whatever being alt then it is compatable with... DeDev lol

 

 

 

impossible. authority comes from executive order 13295, section 1 , subsection c meaning that the president is the only one with the full authority to override that. a court ruling or a specific congress legislation wouldnt be suffice...

 

yah the t your thinking of is the right one,

 

this aff is ran different ways with the courts ruling to end detention based on pre communatibilty using some very good cards by annas from a law review, also lex MM runs an aff that uses congress involving posse comiatatus. So the agent strat does work against these two affs, but you are correct against the president aff it would not.

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ok heres a really good T detain w/o charge, Charge = crime

 

the people who are detained based on asumption that they have the bird flu are not criminals, there is no criminal " charge" to charge them with

 

 

INDEED. AND THUS, THEY ARE DETAINED......WITHOUT.....CHARGE.....

 

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

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INDEED. AND THUS, THEY ARE DETAINED......WITHOUT.....CHARGE.....

 

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

The point is that the phrase "Detention without Charge" implies that there must be a possibility of a criminal charge.

 

For example, kids in In School Suspension are "detained" (in fact, they are in detention), and there is certainly no "criminal charge" associated with this. However, this does not constitute a "detention without charge."

 

Obviously, this is a debatable argument, but there is a good point to be made that the topic would be more fairly limited if the aff were restricted to detentions that involve the possibility of a charge. I.E. the aff should be able to end Detention Without Charge, but allow Detention With Charge. The aff should not be able to ban an instance of detention in which a charge is not possible, because this bans all detention, and not just detention without charge.

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STOP RUINING OUR FUN THAT WE HAVE MESSING WITH PEOPLE THAT AREN'T AS GOOD AT DEBATE THAN YOU STEPHEN, GOD.

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Run this T, maybe a biopower ( Focault or Agamben) K with a link to fear, it links well because even if the aff " solves" for this instance of biopower( asuming they have a biopower adv) they still perpetuate the system of state control, the state can not ever " solve" biopower. The alternative solves and is better than the aff

 

this makes almost no sense. it seems like the link evidence for a biopolitics criticism would point more toward the direction of an affirmative advantage than toward a link to a Foucault/Agamben K.

first (assuming it is a straight foucaultian criticism), foucault writes specifically about how quarantining, in instances like this, serves as a basis for normalization and discipline (see the interview Body/Power in the book Power/Knowledge for specific cards and full context). also, the quarantining of individuals based on fear of the loss of national security IS the link, and i would be willing to bet that there is a lot better evidence for the aff than for the neg in this instance. even if you win a risk of a link, the link turn would outweigh and would solve better. i also dont even understand what this link could be. are you criticising the affirmatives attempt to debunk a false fear of h5n1? if so, your argument is basically "rejecting fear bad judge", and that gets you no where in an attempted Foucault debate. the cards that are written by Campbell, Der Derian, Dumm, Foucault, and others seem to point in the direction of resisting a constructed threat like h5n1. i may be wrong though.

second (assuming this is an Agamben criticism), it seems like the fear of h5n1 would be used to maintain a state of emergency, and the ability of the sovereign/police to detain anyone at any time would seem like parts of the state of emergency necessary for domination. i know less about agamben, but it seems this would also be a better aff advantage than a neg K link.

how exactly does an affirmative like this prop up the system of state control? and since when did the state come into the mix? sure, biopower, or power, will never go away, but that isnt an answer to this affirmative or any affirmative with a biopolitics advantage. they still can break down fear, etc.

basically, i think the link turns work better than the links, and the aff/perm solve better than the alternative

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this makes almost no sense. it seems like the link evidence for a biopolitics criticism would point more toward the direction of an affirmative advantage than toward a link to a Foucault/Agamben K.

first (assuming it is a straight foucaultian criticism), foucault writes specifically about how quarantining, in instances like this, serves as a basis for normalization and discipline (see the interview Body/Power in the book Power/Knowledge for specific cards and full context). also, the quarantining of individuals based on fear of the loss of national security IS the link, and i would be willing to bet that there is a lot better evidence for the aff than for the neg in this instance. even if you win a risk of a link, the link turn would outweigh and would solve better. i also dont even understand what this link could be. are you criticising the affirmatives attempt to debunk a false fear of h5n1? if so, your argument is basically "rejecting fear bad judge", and that gets you no where in an attempted Foucault debate. the cards that are written by Campbell, Der Derian, Dumm, Foucault, and others seem to point in the direction of resisting a constructed threat like h5n1. i may be wrong though.

second (assuming this is an Agamben criticism), it seems like the fear of h5n1 would be used to maintain a state of emergency, and the ability of the sovereign/police to detain anyone at any time would seem like parts of the state of emergency necessary for domination. i know less about agamben, but it seems this would also be a better aff advantage than a neg K link.

how exactly does an affirmative like this prop up the system of state control? and since when did the state come into the mix? sure, biopower, or power, will never go away, but that isnt an answer to this affirmative or any affirmative with a biopolitics advantage. they still can break down fear, etc.

basically, i think the link turns work better than the links, and the aff/perm solve better than the alternative

 

Yah for focault ure prolly right that debate would go aff, bu on agamben, he would not advocate using the state, state action just reinforces the exception because then the aff gives rights to make themelsef seem good but in reality they can just take those righs away again. It reinforces control and power even if the internals to biopower are really strong aff, there is still that risk of a link/ case turn

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People with bird flu could potentially be charged. They could become there own weapon and kill who they wanted.

 

Also, bird flu is the ultimate link turn because they end domestic militirization. Bush overturns the PCA--->Paving the way to domestic militirism and this is a fate worse than death out weighing the K. The aff could use a Mbembe card about death and say how freedom and death are inextricably woven and trying to win that against the K. Bush has given the military/WHO people the authority to detain these people who r suspected with bird flu. The aff takes this away which they can try to link out against the K.

 

A possible CP could be to stop detainment w/o charge of all people who have communicable diseases with multiple net benefits. I don't know im a novice. these are just some of my ideas.

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[.

 

A possible CP could be to stop detainment w/o charge of all people who have communicable diseases with multiple net benefits. I don't know im a novice. these are just some of my ideas.

 

this cp is a version of the aff

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