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TheCOWisPG13

California State Tourney

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yeah, louis posted in another thread and confirmed that he and richard are not coming to the state tournament.

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Guest I'mInLoveWithaStripper
kind of like our rounds sandy....wink wink....haha

You contribute to the detriment of my IQ. I am certainly amazed that you run arguments like "suicide bombing good"... you come from Bakersfield (AKA White Trash Capital of the United States), be careful or they might attack you with their pitchforks.

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You contribute to the detriment of my IQ. I am certainly amazed that you run arguments like "suicide bombing good"... you come from Bakersfield (AKA White Trash Capital of the United States), be careful or they might attack you with their pitchforks.

 

Wow. Please stop publicly insulting AJ. This is not a personal attack; I am certainly not inviting a fight with you. I just think that if you have a problem with AJ you should have a personal conversation with him.

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The seven teams in quarters (8am on Sunday):

Bellarmine Grimes/Groves

Bellarmine Patel/Naik

Lynbrook Gupta/Ho

James Logan Lin/Pradhan

Jesuit Lucien/Siddiqui

Davis Sr. Minhaj/Patel

San Dieguito Ostrove/Klopack

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The seven teams in quarters (8am on Sunday):

Bellarmine Grimes/Groves

Bellarmine Patel/Naik

Lynbrook Gupta/Ho

James Logan Lin/Pradhan

Jesuit Lucien/Siddiqui

Davis Sr. Minhaj/Patel

San Dieguito Ostrove/Klopack

 

what did the tournament break to? just quarters?

and what did you have to do to break?

and speaks?

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The California State tournament is a double-elimination tournament. There are 9 rounds total. Quarters is Rd 7. Speaker points are not used - it works out mathematically that there are exactly 7 teams in quarters with this double-elim system. There are 64 teams at state. There is one bye in quarters.

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now don't get it twisted, i'm a HATER. some would even say i'm a diabolicical hater (the most diabolical this side of the mississippi), but this online venom seems silly. if you want to hate, please backchannel that hate, or do it in person (preferably where i can see it happening). we can send private messages and emails from this, please do that.

 

the least i can ask is if you're gonna run your mouth, PLEASE sign your name. hating is ok, what happens here is cowardly

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what did the tournament break to? just quarters?

and what did you have to do to break?

and speaks?

 

it's double elimination with a total of 8 rounds, and then finals

 

so in finals there were

Bellarmine Grimes/Groves v. James Logan Lin/Pradhan

 

awards is a bit later

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it's double elimination with a total of 8 rounds, and then finals

 

more specifically

rds 1-3: everyone debates these, those with at least 2 wins advance

rds 4-6: double elimination, if you get two 2 losses including rds 1-3, you're out

rds 7-9 (quarterfinals-finals): single-elimination all or nothing bracket

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Congratulations to Grimes and Groves. And to Akash and Johnny from Logan. Two very good teams had what it takes to be successful at this tournament, despite what most of you would call a bad judging pool. Again, the team that wins state is a TOC qualifier. Hmmmm. I guess all that bad judging must have let the wrong team win...again. :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, props to Mike and Basil from Jesuit and to Jin and Jackie from Leland as well. Both had some bad luck this weekend. One was self-created, the other was just that California State Tournament luck.

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Congratulations to Lynbrook Guarav Gupta and Eric Ho. Making it all the way to the semifinals of state as a sophomore-junior team is a sign of their excellent ability and future potential in slow debate. They will be a team to watch out for in the CFL next year.

 

Edit: Also major props to Bellarmine for winning both the policy state title and the LD state title. This is just continued tribute to the excellent program they have in preparing all their debaters to be smart, clear, and persuasive, which is why they have become the thorn in the side of every debater in the CFL (including me).

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Yeah, the state tournament was very fun. Lot's of anxiety though. Congratulations to Bellarmine for winning it all. We'd never have reached finals if Basil and Mike from Jesuit and Gabe from Nevada Union hadn't helped us with evidence. Thanks also to Goldberg, you all are very generous. Good luck to you all at Nationals!

 

-Akash

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to the GG from bellermine and to johnny and akash from logan on driving you way through the land mines i'll simply call california state debate judging.

 

and marcus, before you say "the best team won", i'll just tell you that open ballot review allows you to see what goes on in the minds of the judges, and if you think "land mine" is a mean/uncalled for description, PM me and i'll send you some of the RFD's i read. no naming names of judges or programs- i'm not that thorough or malicious

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to the GG from bellermine and to johnny and akash from logan on driving you way through the land mines i'll simply call california state debate judging.

 

and marcus, before you say "the best team won", i'll just tell you that open ballot review allows you to see what goes on in the minds of the judges, and if you think "land mine" is a mean/uncalled for description, PM me and i'll send you some of the RFD's i read. no naming names of judges or programs- i'm not that thorough or malicious

 

I know Doug. I know. I still say that the best teams end up winning 80 percent of the time. Land mines might be an apt description. But ya gotta learn how to navigate the minefield. But realize that you will occassionally step on one. Luckily, these land mines aren't deadly, just frustrating.

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I think one of the ways you can reduce the frustration is to reduce the number of judges in the prelim panels. Right now you have a coach, random critic x from the commmunity and random critic y from acaddemia right? Or something like that...

 

So you have a panel of people you can't read and who will go three different ways sometimes. The purpose of a panel is not to make audience adaptation a joke... which is what this does. My guess for the justification of the panel is because debate is a communication event. Agreed. But as a communication scholar, I would contend that you have to do some audience analysis and this is lost when judges refuse to disclose any information about themselves. So now you are flying blind which defeats all educational purposes of it being a communication event. It is the reason in public speaking classes you have an entire section devoted to audience analysis.

 

If you have one judge, they may still not disclose anything about themselves. Okay, but now you have reduced the absolute randomness of the judging to one random variable. And through the art of communication, you can form a bond or connection with that judge... or at least if you get one crazy ballot, it isn't as disheartening as three that say ridiculous rfds.

 

This is also true in individual events. I am not just contending debate is the only activity that needs judges with some level of knowledge. If we are trying to educate students in the arts of argumentation, persuasion, communication... let's actually educate them... let us as coaches do our part to coach... but as tournament committees, directors, hosts... let us ensure that we bring in judges who do the same. How educational is it for a student who has worked all year practicing the art of communication to leave a tournament with ballots that say things that are antithetical to the study and art of communication.

 

To use the landmine metaphor that Marcus uses... if you have three mines in a field, it is a much more dangerous field then when there is just one.

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i concede that GG is the best team in the state (that was there)- i also concede GG (as well as the rest of the bellarmine team) is particularly good at not getting blown up...that being said, i can't believe you just used the analogy of "navagating a minefield"...can't navigate if you don't know where the mines are, it's not like there's a map of where the mines are...and i think that kids not knowing why what happened even post reading a ballot is probably more damaging

 

dd

 

 

I know Doug. I know. I still say that the best teams end up winning 80 percent of the time. Land mines might be an apt description. But ya gotta learn how to navigate the minefield. But realize that you will occassionally step on one. Luckily, these land mines aren't deadly, just frustrating.

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We never had a flow panel so we just went slow the entire time. I think that good flow teams like Bellarmine GG have an advantage even at lay tournaments because they are very good at boiling down sophisticated concepts and feeding them to lay judges. With that said, it doesn't hurt to be able to speak beautifully.

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We never had a flow panel so we just went slow the entire time. I think that good flow teams like Bellarmine GG have an advantage even at lay tournaments because they are very good at boiling down sophisticated concepts and feeding them to lay judges. With that said, it doesn't hurt to be able to speak beautifully.

grimes and groves sure know how to do that!

They really did earn that first place...and they are both hella wonderful speakers...

the tournament overall was ran really well....and the judging wasnt that bad.......

but i do agree that it is hard to adapt to a judging pool when you have three completely different kinds of judges! But...i think the people running the tournament did the best they could....and it produced two awesome teams in finals......

with that being said....the tournamet was really fun!

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