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Vlad Tepes

If there were a draft would you

If there were a draft what would you do  

178 members have voted

  1. 1. If there were a draft what would you do

    • enlist beforhand
      22
    • leave the country
      29
    • Claim to be gay
      44
    • allow yourself to be drafted
      34
    • Commit suicide
      2
    • Find another way to dodge
      47


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Just a bit of clarification:

 

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mennonites don't hold a monopoly on christian sects opposed to killing. The Amish and Quakers do as well, I believe.

 

Then there are people like me who are Christian but don't subscribe to any particular denomination or go to church. I believe that my faith is between me and God, not between me and some bullshit religious hierarchy.

 

I personally don't see how anyone who calls themselves Christian could join the military.

 

That's just me, though.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought those were the only two. I just named the first two i could think of off hand.

 

And that wheeler dude, you're just recycling more of that rhetoric I was just talking about. Just because somebody is morally opposed to killing doesn't make them a sorry person, or a coward, or anything else. It makes them people who abide by their principles. Nothing more, nothing less.

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I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought those were the only two. I just named the first two i could think of off hand.

 

Nah, I was just extending on what you said a bit.

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Everyone who would consider dodging should leave the country now. You obviously don't care enough about your rights to fight for them you should stop considering yourself an american. I completly agree with the if you have something against war enlist and become a medic, save the people protecting you. This country has given you so much why would you abandon it at its time of need.

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Everyone who would consider dodging should leave the country now. You obviously don't care enough about your rights to fight for them you should stop considering yourself an american. I completly agree with the if you have something against war enlist and become a medic, save the people protecting you. This country has given you so much why would you abandon it at its time of need.

 

How hypocritical of you. One of the things this country has given me is a freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I believe that killing is wrong and I'm morally opposed to not only doing it but helping people who do.

 

What makes this country great is the freedoms it lets us have. Demanding that everyone who doesn't agree with you leave the country is sure as hell not an american thing to say.

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i am as anti-war as the next liberal... but if my country called on me for my service in the military, i wouldnt hesitate. my CO would almost certainly throw me out for being unfit to run a mile let alone long walks carrying a field pack... but i wouldnt dodge the draft by any means. this belief applies so long as a) the draft is fair and random B) the government can be trusted not to be drafting civilian to have a modern "trench war" sending them out ill equipped and ill armed to face arow of machine guns....

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Ok, let me clarify a lil bit:

 

I dont mind ppl getting out fo the draft for legit reasons, or for religious purposes, but the ppl who fake it just so they dont have to fight are the ppl im targeting with my posts.

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My order would be

 

1) Hold firm that i am morally opposed to killing/war

2) Lie about sexual orientation

3) Go to jail

4) Leave the country

 

I agree with Jimmy Page in that people who fought for our freedom didnt just do it to make us have to fight. Even if dodging the draft doesnt seem like a great idea to you, you probably should look down upon those that would do so. Freedom of expression, anyone?

 

I think Naom Chomsky said it best when he said "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."

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i'd just have one of my friends doctor parents write some false medical condition....then claim that i am gay on top of that

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the most brutally murderous government in history was that of the USSR under Stalin. Therefore, all you people who are willing to enlist must be communists.
The USSR under Stalin can hardly be considered Communist, as you indicate -- Stalin himself lived in a large manor outside Moscow, which in and of itself is excluded in a communist system. Hell, Stalin wasn't even a communist. The USSR was making progress under Lenin; after his death, neither Stalin, Trotsky, Zinoviev or Kamenev understood/supported communism enough to continue what Lenin had started.

 

I wouldn't dodge; I'd go to jail. I think serving is admirable, primarily because I could never do it myself, but I can't endorse the actions taken by any military... ever. Draft dodging is counterproductive -- you save yourself and someone else fights in your place. Not that imprisonment is all that different (meh, I'm a romantic), but I think it makes a better statement and, of course, if enough people did it the draft would collapse. I'd argue that military service is imprisonment, as you're put in a position of subordination to a commanding system. When you lose that control, you are imprisoned. I suppose you could always desert, but it comes to the same thing, imprisonment or serving. At that level, I'd choose imprisonment which doesn't involve killing over imprisonment that does.

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I would:

 

1) Hold fast to my objections against war

2) Not lie about my sexual orientation

3) Protest the fact that a draft even exists.

4) Go to prison if I had to (and continue protesting from there if possible).

 

 

And way to go to everyone who assumes that people who wouldn't be willing to go are either communists or "pussies". Clearly, anyone who would avoid the draft for any reason just doesn't have the balls to take a stand (sarcasm).

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I have a problem with the poll wording where it says another way to "dodge." That implies some sort of unscrupulous scheme to avoid serving.

 

A number of people here have stated they'd be claiming conscientious objector status. Philosophically, I interpret that to mean anyone who has a firm belief that they shouldn't have to serve. That goes beyond a religious belief, and includes:

 

1. Someone morally or philosophically opposed to war.

2. Someone morally or philosophically opposed to the specific war/conflict.

3. Someone morally or philosophically opposed to mandatory service.

 

You have a lot of narrow and bombastic rhetoric on this thread like:

I dont mind ppl getting out fo the draft for legit reasons, or for religious purposes, but the ppl who fake it just so they dont have to fight are the ppl im targeting with my posts.

 

Well, I agree with the actual wording you've used there. If you're "faking it" that's wrong. If you just don't feel like going, but you believe that the government has a right to conduct the draft, that's wrong.

 

But I'm sure we disagree on "legit reasons."

 

I happen to believe the government has no right to force the average citizen into service. Our founding principles suggest that the government exists to guard our security and liberty, not put it at risk. If Joe Sixpack believes in Vietnam War, or that his freedom is in jeopardy, he can sign up.

 

Forcing him to do so is contrary to the very purposes our nation. Ultimately, sacrificing one's liberty and risking one's life in defense of others is a personal decision, not one that should mandated by the government that exists only to protect the citizen.

 

As such, I would reserve the right to conscientiously object to the involuntary servitude of the draft itself. If I believed in the particular battle being fought, or if I thought my life/liberty was in jeopardy from our adversary, I would likely enlist.

 

And no, my religion does not prohibit military service. My beliefs, which I came to embrace on my own accord, do. I think one's personally held beliefs are arguably more relevant than so-called "religious beliefs" which are typically part of an overall belief system that an individual accepts due to family lineage. When someone says "I believe..." it means more to me than someone saying "my church/mosque/synagogue/etc. believes..."

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Honenstly what it boils down to is what the war is for. If bush tried to call a draft for the war in iraq i would tell him to go fuck himself and get his own oil. If we were actually invaded then it would be different.

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Honenstly what it boils down to is what the war is for. If bush tried to call a draft for the war in iraq i would tell him to go fuck himself and get his own oil. If we were actually invaded then it would be different.

 

That's a really good point. WWII - I'd draft quick as I could. But when you really think a war is wrong I can understand trying to get out of the draft.

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Bingo. Vietnam wasnt about "protecting" freedom, it was about maintaing our position.

 

The war in Iraq isnt about protecting freedom, until the war on terror there was nothing that even tryed to take our "freedom" away.

Give me a break. The North Vietnamese Regime was commited and dedicated to the violent overthrow of the democratically elected South Vietnamese government. They had infiltrators in place since right around 1954 and kept them there until they had final victory. Communists aren't interested in peaceful political processes, they want power by any means. If you think we had no place in Vietnam then I think you have no place in America.

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this is stupid..

 

IT became a debate on whether or not people are red's or not.. not whether you should enlist.

 

 

I become gay

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I won't lie about my sexual orientation. I go for conscientious objector, then medical reason, then leave the country, then go to jail.

 

And just because I don't want to die doesn't make me a pussy, or unpatriotic. It means I don't want to die, and anyone who dies to "protect my safety" is doing so without ever asking me whether or not I wanted them to protect it. "Patriotic duty" is some of the worst bullshit I've ever heard. It's a country's duty to protect its people, NOT vice-versa.

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Then the question arrises as to how a country would protect its people without protection by the people.

 

I agree that the call for patriotic action is, within itself, an unpatriotic action, but im not sure about how the vice-versa deal would work out

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