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Rape is therefore good, as it is key to human survival. Nice one.

 

actually, rape is a means of unattractive dipshits like you to get laid and pass on your seed (unfortunately.) if we are talking evolution.

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@Gimmick Account

 

I detect the presence of religion in you...such a shame. I don't want to address everything all at once (because I lack the motivation to type pages worth in one sitting), but basically...just say anything about porn again and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

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@Gimmick Account

 

I detect the presence of religion in you...such a shame. I don't want to address everything all at once (because I lack the motivation to type pages worth in one sitting), but basically...just say anything about porn again and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

Way to bring a new perspective to things...

 

My previous comments speak for themselves.

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Hmm...I didn't notice it was two months old...

 

Anyways, though, I'd love for her to show up and continue the debate.

 

And while I'm aware that you (as well as others) have made important points, Fox Sans Socks, I think more could be done.

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@Gimmick Account

 

I detect the presence of religion in you...such a shame. I don't want to address everything all at once (because I lack the motivation to type pages worth in one sitting), but basically...just say anything about porn again and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

 

Why can't people distinguish someone with ethical values versus the religious. Why is a presence of religion a "shame" anyway? ugh.

 

"The linkage between sex and killing becomes unpleasantly apparent when we enter the realm of warfare[...] And just as highly personal, close-up, one-on-one, intense experience of killing can be like sex, so can sex be like killing. Glenn Gray speaks of this relationship. "To be sure," he says

 

the sexual partner is not actually destroyed in the encounter, merely overthrown. And the psychological aftereffects of sexual lust are different from those of battle lusts. These differences, however, do not alter the fact that the passions have a common source and affect their victims in the same way while they are in thei rgrip.

 

The concept of sex as a process of domination and defeat is closely related to the lust for rape and the trauma associated with the rape victim. Thrusting the sexual appendage (the penis) deep into the body of the victim can be perversely linked to thrusting the killing appendage (a bayonet or knife) deep into the body of the victim.

 

This process can be seen in pornographic movies in which the sexual act is twisted, such that the male ejaculates -- or "shoots his wad" -- into a female's face. The grip of a firer on the pistol grip of a gun is much like the grip on an erect penis, and holding the penis in this fashion while ejaculating into the victim's face is at some level an act of domination and symbolic destruction. The culmination of this intertwining of sex and death can be seen in snuff films, in whcih a victim is raped and then murdered on film."

 

From On Killing, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, Military Psychologist.

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Read How to Make Love Like A Porn Star. Jenna Jameson chronicles her life as a porn star (with a ghost writer obviously.) But if you try to sieve through the shit meant for entertainment and Jameson's actual statements you can see that though she defends her lifestyle the whole thing is littered with tragedy. Her first friend who was a fellow stripper was constantly raped by her father and in the end (Jameson is convinced) killed by the pimping sob; the lives of porn stars are interconnected with addiction (meth); usually female porn stars are taken advantage of by "suit case pimps" (the "boyfriends/lovers" of the porn stars); Jameson was raped multiple times; Jameson says that the reason she got into pornography was as a sort of revenge (she knew her boyfriend at the time would not like this); in paraphrase Jameson says she cannot watch herself in the porn films and that each sex act is a power struggle; Jameson says she would rather lock her daughter up than allow her to (hypothetically) consider becoming a porn star ... etc. etc.

 

Porn in general is not an average healthy (mentally, physically, psychologically) woman performing sex acts with an average healthy man in front of a camera. What happens behind the scenes is important context.

 

Also, have any of you actually watched pornography as a subject of study? 9/10 of the pornographic films I've seen have some violence happen to a woman: a woman is violently penetrated by a pool boy, women that look like little girls are fucked in submissive positions, in one "plot" a girl got clubbed in a head by a porno director and in her temporary amnesia she is convinced she is a porn star... etc. Most of it's pretty ridiculous and embarrassing.

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Porn isn't the only place where you see violence and rape.

 

"The act of rape has gronw so common in recent films that when it's going to happen on the screen you can feel it coming, as if it were the logical conclusion to certain antecedent events [...] The story is about Alexander, a young man who beats up old men and rapes and murders women. Finally, when he is imprisoned, he volunteers for some antiviolence treaments so that he may be discharged early. The treatments consist of forcing him to watch movies of violence and rape while injected with a nauseant so that in the future he will associate violence with sickness and feelings of dread [...] We are forced to watch what seems hours of Alexander's rapes, beatings, and sordid slashings. He has a boundless imagination when it comes to brutalizing and degrading people (mostly women ) and we must be shown all the possibilities until finally we tire [...]

 

Take the first rape. Not only is it a gang rape, but the woman is extraordinarily shapely and beautiful, and it is, of all places, on the stage of an enormous abandoned theater. One street gang barges in on the other gang doing the raping and there ensues a very bloody fight [...] Some how in the shuffle the woman gets away but the tone is set for the way females are to be treated in the following scenes. [...] The next rape is choreographed to music. After gaining entrance to the house of an elderly and famous writer, Alexander and his white hoods, dressed in dancers' costumes, kick the old man and proceed to stage the rape of his young wife in his presence. Our hero Alexander cuts holes in the woman's jumpsuit [etc. etc.] then he rapes the terrified woman. This rape establishes women as depthless, incidental, and interchangeable characters in the story, leaving the way Alexander moves his graceful leotarded body to the music ("Singing in the Rain") to capture our full attention. [...] A Clockwork Orange should be labeled and filed away somehwere in feminist archives because it makes such a complex study of femal humiliation [...] Rape is staged in a theater, choreographed to music, and finally incarnated in the giant white phallus as it becomes the instrument of sexual murder."

 

Lynne Farrow, The Independent Woman and the Cinema of Rape

 

And if it is not in this article then it is in the book I took the article from (Rape by New York Radical Feminists), but basically a portion of the text says that often gratuitous rape scenes are interjected in films by producers to up entertainment value. But really, do you have to read long summaries of movies to see this phenomena? Has anyone seen the Hills Have Eyes? The Hills Have Eyes II?? Why is the same scene repeated in the second movie? With more gusto? Is it because it is (in a sick way) entertaining to the audience?

I have also done little research of my own. I asked friends and acquaintances the following question: "Do you think sex is inherently violent?" Now disregarding the vagueness of the question (for I find responses to vagueness in itself a source of invaluable insight as much as the answer itself) an overwhelming majority of women said "yes" or "yes, depending on the definition of violence" whereas an overwhelming majority of men gave a blunt and almost offended "no." Now, I find this (though very limited) information very interesting and think it is worth pursuing (someone has suggested that I take into account various sexualit[ies] and/or sexual orientations.)

 

If you want my views on sex, I find sex fascinating in as it is inextricably linked to the human condition but personally, boring. I came to realize one day that the only time I really think about sex with me as a central figure is when I am utterly and abjectly bored. So I now associate sex with boredom. But personal testimony is for another time. I shall post excerpts from Brownmiller and Dworkin of testimony that may provide more context.

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Way to bring a new perspective to things...

 

My previous comments speak for themselves.

 

seriously?

 

Pornography is a form of entertainment. Everything said so far also applies to "mainstream" movies and TV shows. Maybe it appeals to the lowest common denominator, but if that's where your market is, that's who you cater to. If Americans didn't purchase billions of dollars of pornographic entertainment every year, you can bet that the industry (and the medium) would slowly wither and possibly die out completely (just as Hollywood, or newspapers, or magazines, or publishing houses, or <insert media industry here> would if their products were no longer in demand).

 

I suppose I agree with this to a degree...

 

There are always power struggles in modern entertainment, good vs. evil, man vs. himself, masturbating bear vs. annoyed talk show host... If anything, pornographic films defy this mantra since the characters have (literally) nothing to hide. Perhaps most porn films are shot from a heterosexual male's point of view, or in a way that "objectifies" females more than males, but that makes sense given that the primary purchasers of these films are heterosexual males. If females or homosexuals were the primary buyers of pornography, then the tables would be turned quite a bit. In fact, there is pornographic media created for women and for non-heterosexuals, does this unduly "objectify" men?

 

Does Hollywood "objectify" selfish, immoral, or brown people? Do television shows "objectify" poor families? Does the evening news "objectify" murder victims?

 

The bottom line is that pornography is no more or less dangerous to society than any of the other (more widely diesseminated) media that exists in this country; it just makes people feel better, rather than more afraid...

 

This seems like a poor argument. Just because there are other bad representations in the media does not make pornography any more desirable. I say trash it all, especially if the masses can't handle it correctly.

 

It's time this country took that boot out of its ass and realized there's nothing wrong with sex. People were doing it long before media existed, so we can't say that porn created an artificial interest in the activity. It's a workout, it develops deep bonds, and it feels good. Hell, it's better than video games, just don't tell that to Sony...

 

Nothing is wrong with sex. The fact that what you see in pornography as sex is the only way you will be able to view "normal sex" (as in, an attack on pornography to you is an attack on sex) is a reason why people have "boots in their asses" about how influential pornography is on impressionable youth.

 

Pornography is a stylized and somewhat unnatural (yet entertaining) depiction of a real-life activity that millions of Americans do. Prime-time TV and your local movie theater are filled with media that fit that exact description, they merely have less nudity. Pornography, as a whole, isn't any more harmful to society than CSI, Mission Impossible, or any Stephen King book.

 

once again, the ubiquitous nature of vulgar depictions of sex is not a good reason as to why pornography should be tolerated by decent people.

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Porn is entertainment and in my opinion, strictly a business. The nature of porn is thus dictated by its market. I wouldn't say pornography within itself is right or wrong but rather a medium of entertainment with the intent to sexually arouse its audience. Based on this premise I would say:

 

Is porn right or wrong?

n/a

 

Is it sexist?

yes

 

Can there be non-sexist forms of porn?

possibly - parallel to a nonsexist society

 

Is it a gender issue or a labor issue?

a societal issue (as in, encompasses both?)

 

Should porn be paid for, or is it better to not pay for it?

I debated this for awhile... Should the women/men not be paid, then one could legitimately say that they are doing it out of free will- because they like it or in order to take back the power etc.

 

However, right now some actresses (perhaps actors) aren't being paid for their roles regardless and this is more along the lines of exploitation.

 

Is there a difference between porn and erotica?

definition wise, yes. 'how does one determine what fufills the definition' is a completely different matter. what is art?

 

Should porn be outlawed? Isn't Catherine MacKinnon an idiot? etc etc et cetera.

i don't know enough about the legal issues.

 

whoa I've come a long way... although I still believe in that 'society is reflected in pornography' line of thinking...

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whoa I've come a long way... although I still believe in that 'society is reflected in pornography' line of thinking...

I dont mean to be new, or spark up an old topic but seeing as though I am a freqeunter on pichunter.com I agree. I mean in porn yo see things like "Watch this inncocent, eager to please little girl get smashed by this huge dirty black cock. I think that is a testament to the inherent racism and obvious sterotypes in our society. A country is only as good as its (mentally, socially, economically, and morally) poorest person. So porn is inevitable, people will always masterbate n matter what the circumstances(unless they have unlimited access to real sex). None of these things keep me away from wathcing porn though I simply accept that society is fucked up and simply keep on chuggin.

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A few eh? How many of that "few" have changed the mindset of the 300,000,000 people who live in our society....I know you dont have to be a pastor or win the TOC(although if u win the TOC on a K that talks about how society is fucked up and it gets popular, then people everywhere will think about it) but those were just examples..........If you name me 1 just 1 highschooler (9th grade) who has changed the mindset of society (while they were in 9th grade) If you can name me that then Im an asshole and wont post on this thread again..... Mind you that if this highschooler has changed society, when you say his name I (or most people) should know him beacuse he touched all of our lives.

Your thought process is defeatist and disappointing. Just because I cannot stop global warming does not mean I do not conserve energy or gasoline - just because you are not one of great influence does not mean you don't act with value. Or not.

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I got an unsigned neg rep for this thread that goes: "this is a 'soft' disapprove because i don't think the topic should be in a forum where 14 year olds are going to read it"

 

So, uhm, feel like telling me who you are so we can discuss this?

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When does it become appropriate?

Most of the posts on this thread have been in the spirit of serious discussion and thought.

 

Look, everyone who can post on this website has access to porn, more images of porn in more ways than ever imaginable before the internet. And that's not likely to change. As a society we are more and more saturated with porn, than ever before.

 

Maybe this is meaningless, maybe it doesn't matter. But maybe all these images and videos and sounds shape how we desire, in what ways we relate to our bodies and the bodies of others. What sort of sex we want, how we want that sex, and how we want to be as sexual beings. And this probably matters.

 

I was 12 when I ran across my first porn magazine (a friend stole it from his dad and gave it to me in the boys' locker room, how annoyingly cliche). I didn't have internet then, indeed though I am still fairly young (25) I grew up before porn on demand as a teenager.

 

I was 14 years of age when I engaged in heterosexual coitus for the first time. And I am not a statistical anomaly, if you read the articles recently about the failure of abstinence only sex education, about half of all students had had sex, and the majority of them had sex when they were 14.8 years old (almost exactly the same time in my life when I had sex, another annoying cliche).

 

I don't think there is anything inappropriate for 14 year olds to be figuring out their feelings about porn, and to be reading people actually trying to discuss the impact and implications of porn on society.

 

 

Now, I can understand institutional concerns. I can understand apprehensions that something that says "Porn" is so often on the front page of a webpage were teachers, parents, and school administrators might just happen to wander. My time as a teacher and a coach (though in the college setting) make me more aware of these concerns. Still. That is by far a different argument than this being in a place where 14 year olds might read it.

 

 

Just some thoughts.

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Thank you for saving the integrity of this thread...

 

I largely agree. First of all, a lot of things on this site might raise the eyebrow of an administrator, teacher, principal, school librarian, etc. if they walked past while someone read this. Parts of this site could be considered educational (for debate anyway), but a lot of it's just talk and some schools don't like people socially networking, instant messaging, emailing, or utilizing other forms of communication on school time.

 

This thread alone, while not probably a good idea for everyone to read at school, isn't the primary cause for concern.

 

As for the actual thread... I think this is a discussion that needs to be had, at a time when our society is saturated with sexual images. Many TV commercials, non R-rated movies, etc. have images that border on pornography anyway.

 

I was at one point reading a book about how marketers target girls, and there was a lot of talk in that book about images of sex in the media. Researchers are starting to find that these images might have an effect on how both boys and girls see sexual activity. Especially for those kids who wait until after the average age to engage in sexual activity... it stands to reason that, for many of them, these images help shape their main idea of what sex should be like and their perceptions of sexuality.

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I think its Nietzsche... but thats just a guess. Don't hold me to it though...

If you were aiming for funny, you missed your mark terribly.

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I think its Nietzsche... but thats just a guess. Don't hold me to it though...

 

If you were aiming for funny, you missed your mark terribly.

 

Not really, sarcasm never works effectively online. So, to clarify... I was thinking Nietzsches Master/Slave theory.

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Not really, sarcasm never works effectively online. So, to clarify... I was thinking Nietzsches Master/Slave theory.

That's not only a poor appropriation of Nietzsche's thought but STILL not funny.

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First of all to make it quick I think porn is only sexist, racist, oppressive, when you take it that way. Some people view the porn stars as empowering themselves, others see it as the porn stars are being controlled. You will see porn as you want to see it.

 

Now I will get on to how i feel about porn. To be blunt, I find it enjoyable. Not because I get to see a "bareley legal, college co-ed" get smashed by a "monster dick", but rather because the movies are a work of master art and acting. The internet porn is the more raunchy stuff and i dont really like all that, im more or less talking about the "feature films" if you will.

 

I watch the porn for the same reason people watch classic films, for the acting. Porn stars have to express emotions while have intercourse without saying words, they do it all through body language, a feat alot of people couldent pull off. They have to fake love, attraction, fun, arousual, ect. with a partner who they probably dont know. I dont watch it to turn me on i watch it for entertainment. The funny thing about my take on porn is that a girl whos mom was a playboy model put it to me this way and really changed my mind. -h.g.s

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That's not only a poor appropriation of Nietzsche's thought but STILL not funny.

 

Forget it, its people like you that annoy the hell outta me. Stop taking your frustrations out on people over the internet :) .

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