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i find it interesting/upsetting that a disproportionate amount of female porn stars have been sexually abused previous to their career choice. the fact that people get off to videos of girls who are, in essence, reliving their past sexual abuse is a little disturbing.

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porn=good.

 

especially for sexually oppressed teenagers. Who can't really express their sexuality. porn gets out your sexual tension, so you dont realease it on an unwilling person.

 

Yeah, if I didn't watch porn I would totally rape everyone I encountered.

 

Damn, thank god I can see stretched a**holes and tight young sluts for free online. I just don't know what else I would do with myself otherwise. I might just develop ideas about sexuality, gender and aesthetics on my own. I might even spend that time forming a meaningful relationship with someone based on mutual trust and respect. I mean, shit. Ah, back to big tits and round asses.

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Shouldn't your name be The Llama?
It's an inside story. Not really a long one, but I don't like to tell stories.

 

KC, there's no reason why using pornography would preclude forming healthy relationships. It is important for teenagers (and pathetic older men) to have a sexual outlet, not necessarily so they won't rape people, but because that's the emotionally healthy thing to do. Besides, isn't it better for people to objectify someone on a TV or computer screen than to objectify people in real life? I know it sounds like a lame argument, but those of us who try to form meaningful relationships with members of the opposite sex can do so and still look at porno.

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hey so have any of yall (specifically scu) read any Andrea Dworkin?

 

so, so relevant.

Couldn't find that at the adult bookstore.

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I testified for the defense as an expert witness on pornography. For the first time, I was under oath when asked whether, in my opinion, pornography is a cause of violence against women. I hate that question, because pornography is violence against women: the women used in pornography. Not only is there a precise symmetry of values and behaviors in pornography and in acts of forced sex and battery, but in a sex-polarized society men also learn about women and sex from pornography. The message is conveyed to men that women enjoy being abused. Increasingly, research is proving that sex and violence--and the perception that females take pleasure in being abused, which is the heart of pornography--teach men both ambition and strategy.

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The refusal, especially among liberals, to believe that pornography has any real relationship to sexual violence is astonishing. Liberals have always believed in the value and importance of education. But when it comes to pornography, we are asked to believe that nothing pornographic, whether written or visual, has an educative effect on anyone. A recognition that pornography must teach something does not imply any inevitable conclusion: it does not per se countenance censorship. It does, however, demand that we pay some attention to the quality of life, to the content of pornography.

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i may continue to post little excerpts from dworkin and mackinnon and the rest of "those crazy feminists" but i have one question for all of you, male and femal alike.

 

should, and this is strictly a should, there be undeniable evidence that pornography is all kinds of bad, would you be able to quit???

 

i think this is a question every porn enthusiast and, even, the casual viewer should ask him/herself before continuing any conversation in this subject matter....

 

it is a very important kind of honesty!

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If porn showed males and females as equals in loving relationships, it would be okay... but wait, that's not the point! It's for people to get a fix, like a drug. So that they can get off without any of the risks associated with actually finding somebody to love.

 

I guess if people are gonna use it they're gonna use it, and free speech first amendment etc., but it seems like junk food- an empty feeling of something resembling happiness.

 

Look at the movie industry. A lot of the movies put out that are PG-13 and above are nothing more than soft porn. The girls are depicted a certain way, guys are depicted a certain way, and someone's always taking their shirt off. The only thing making these movies more socially acceptable than porn is that they don't directly show them doing it- even then they come really close.

 

Porn is more like a symptom of deeper sociological issues- even in the age of equal rights, we still don't see men and women as totally equal, and society views sex as a commodity that sells, not as a mental/physical/spiritual union between two consenting people.

 

So even if we say porn is bad and outlaw it (Comstock Law, anyone?) that's not really going to fix anything.

 

But then again, if people are gonna pay for it, I guess it's a business... like the tobacco industry.

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Pornography is a form of entertainment. Everything said so far also applies to "mainstream" movies and TV shows. Maybe it appeals to the lowest common denominator, but if that's where your market is, that's who you cater to. If Americans didn't purchase billions of dollars of pornographic entertainment every year, you can bet that the industry (and the medium) would slowly wither and possibly die out completely (just as Hollywood, or newspapers, or magazines, or publishing houses, or <insert media industry here> would if their products were no longer in demand).

 

There are always power struggles in modern entertainment, good vs. evil, man vs. himself, masturbating bear vs. annoyed talk show host... If anything, pornographic films defy this mantra since the characters have (literally) nothing to hide. Perhaps most porn films are shot from a heterosexual male's point of view, or in a way that "objectifies" females more than males, but that makes sense given that the primary purchasers of these films are heterosexual males. If females or homosexuals were the primary buyers of pornography, then the tables would be turned quite a bit. In fact, there is pornographic media created for women and for non-heterosexuals, does this unduly "objectify" men?

 

Does Hollywood "objectify" selfish, immoral, or brown people? Do television shows "objectify" poor families? Does the evening news "objectify" murder victims?

 

The bottom line is that pornography is no more or less dangerous to society than any of the other (more widely diesseminated) media that exists in this country; it just makes people feel better, rather than more afraid...

 

It's time this country took that boot out of its ass and realized there's nothing wrong with sex. People were doing it long before media existed, so we can't say that porn created an artificial interest in the activity. It's a workout, it develops deep bonds, and it feels good. Hell, it's better than video games, just don't tell that to Sony...

 

Pornography is a stylized and somewhat unnatural (yet entertaining) depiction of a real-life activity that millions of Americans do. Prime-time TV and your local movie theater are filled with media that fit that exact description, they merely have less nudity. Pornography, as a whole, isn't any more harmful to society than CSI, Mission Impossible, or any Stephen King book.

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but porn itself is sexist by nature in which the VAST MAJORITY of people who want to view it are male

 

Most of porn profits don't come from women - they come from men, therefore, the market, and the job benefits themselves are geared towards that ideal market.

 

"Women, either singly or as part of a couple, constitute more than 40 percent of the adult videotape rental audience. . . ."

 

Beyond that, too many assumptions made on this thread, I think.

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...have you ever wondered why in all of the porn movies produced in America that a male penis is only visible 18% of the time?

 

.

where did you get that stat?

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The problem I see with many arguments, is that it portrays pornography as all a certain way, or all another way.

 

In my experience, many pornographic films consist of consenting adults performing sex acts on camera. While, undeniably, there are unpleasant aspects to some films, or some sectors of the industry, there is also something to be said for the liberation of women within the industry. (There are also plenty other industries that are more inherently sexist than pornography. Capitalism in and of itself is quite sexist.)

 

There are certainly plenty of films out there that portray the female in the sexual relationship as the dominant one, and therefore break this dichotomy of male dominance. There's something to be said about a woman taking control of her sexuality -- even if that means that she -chooses- to be submissive. Looking at any pornographic film, the female, whether she is submissive or dominant, is obviously having a good time. Pornography can be said to have a large role in female sexual liberation -- it's okay to have sex, and it's okay to enjoy it.

 

The argument that pornography is abusive just doesn't make sense to me. Two consenting adults having sex on camera isn't abusive. That's like saying that any time intercourse occurs, someone is being raped. If pornography is abusive, then is any private sexual act abusive? Is intercourse between two consenting adults rape? Where do we draw the line? When the actors and actresses in pornographic films voluntarily perform these acts on camera, is it still exploitation? Or is it people taking control over their sexuality?

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In my experience, many pornographic films consist of consenting adults performing sex acts on camera.

 

how do you define consent? what kind of sex acts?

 

There are certainly plenty of films out there that portray the female in the sexual relationship as the dominant one, and therefore break this dichotomy of male dominance.

 

so you agree in sex there is always someone dominating the other? why is it that way?

 

That's like saying that any time intercourse occurs, someone is being raped.

 

some would say that.

 

Or is it people taking control over their sexuality?

 

what do you mean by "take control of sexuality"?

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how do you define consent? what kind of sex acts?

dictionary.com: to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often fol. by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.

or, if you prefer: permission, approval, or agreement; compliance; acquiescence: He gave his consent to the marriage.

Give me an example of pornography that involves nonconsent.

 

so you agree in sex there is always someone dominating the other? why is it that way?

It was just an example. I don't agree that there's always dominance. It's just very prevalent.

 

some would say that.

Just because some would say that doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it false, either, but it's just an opinion. So I guess it doesn't matter.

 

what do you mean by "take control of sexuality"?

 

 

Women have been taught for centuries that they are to be polite, and avoid conversations dealing with sex in polite society. That women are voluntarily participating in pornography, that they are portraying themselves as independent beings that do what they want, when they want, indicates a control over sexuality.

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some would say that [sexual intercourse necessarily constitutes rape].

 

Rape is therefore good, as it is key to human survival. Nice one.

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dictionary.com: to permit, approve, or agree; comply or yield (often fol. by to or an infinitive): He consented to the proposal. We asked her permission, and she consented.

or, if you prefer: permission, approval, or agreement; compliance; acquiescence: He gave his consent to the marriage.

Give me an example of pornography that involves nonconsent.

 

i have access to websters. you must admit that in sexual relationships things are more complicated than that. when a woman is so poor that she must resort to prostitution in order to scrape up the money to book an airplane ticket back home to get away from her abusive husband, would that sexual transaction be what you call consent??

 

 

It was just an example. I don't agree that there's always dominance. It's just very prevalent.

 

yeah it's prevalent. why do you think that is? that is what i am asking.

 

 

Just because some would say that doesn't make it true. Doesn't make it false, either, but it's just an opinion. So I guess it doesn't matter.

 

but have you considered exploring the opinions of others as well as their justifications for those opinions? how can you have a good opinion if you didn't have to choose between various options?

 

 

Women have been taught for centuries that they are to be polite, and avoid conversations dealing with sex in polite society. That women are voluntarily participating in pornography, that they are portraying themselves as independent beings that do what they want, when they want, indicates a control over sexuality.

 

there have also been whores for centuries. what is your point?

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Rape is therefore good, as it is key to human survival. Nice one.

 

IVF makes survival possible. Even if rape leads to survival, I fail to see why it would be "good".

 

PS: I'm not cool with the way "whore" and "faggot" have been used so far in this thread. I think it's possible to have a conversation about this topic without marginalizing different sexual communities.

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This a touchy issue. I think that pornography returns the individual to the base state, before the imprinting of the socius on the mind. I imagine that the act of watching pornography ("becoming-spectator"?) is an act of release. When the act takes place, there is a disconnect between the individual and "real" sexuality and "imposed sexuality" coming from the screen.

 

That's a bit convoluted. I really mean to say that watching porn presents the human as blank animal. When that state is reached, there becomes a norm that is imprinted (heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality, transvesticism, etc.) on the watcher. As far as the ethics of the act go, on watching it, I think that pornography is just another system of control that imposes "norms" of sexual behavior. I'm sure you have a lot more experience/knowledge in that area, Scu.

 

Performing the act in front of a camera, to me, would be strange. I don't imagine that I would like to turn the most intimate (at least as presented through media for hundreds of years) moment that humans enjoy into an act with no meaning. Capitalist oppression aside, I really think that it's just a little bit sad what people have to do to live "happily".

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i have access to websters. you must admit that in sexual relationships things are more complicated than that. when a woman is so poor that she must resort to prostitution in order to scrape up the money to book an airplane ticket back home to get away from her abusive husband, would that sexual transaction be what you call consent??

 

 

 

 

yeah it's prevalent. why do you think that is? that is what i am asking.

 

 

 

 

but have you considered exploring the opinions of others as well as their justifications for those opinions? how can you have a good opinion if you didn't have to choose between various options?

 

 

 

 

there have also been whores for centuries. what is your point?

 

reputation_neg.gifPornFebruary 18th, 2007 05:36 PMbad arguments

 

 

i don't see any arguments in this post. a shit ton of questions though. just because you like to watch porn and don't like people telling you it's wrong doesn't mean you can go around shitting on people in a cowardly manner. pig.

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