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people who use pot (and drugs) for these reasons are people who can't deal with life's problems in a smart logical and coherent manner like the rest of the population. like i said, pot is only a temporary remedy for life's ills, and furthermore, in all aspects of use.
don't put words into my mouth. smoking pot is not a smart logical and coherent manner to deal with your problems.

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Now this is a fun topic. I really don't see why people have issues with it. I mean there ARE retarted stoners, who act really stupid while high and in public. There are intelligent stoners, who just smoke for the fuck of it, because they like it or otherwise and keep it out of other peoples lives. There are the very social stoners, the kind who love to smoke with other people, if only with other people, as a social ice breaker. There are all kinds of stoners, but let me tell you something, if YOU DONT LIKE WEED...dont smoke it. End of story!

Don't bitch about the bad effects of marijuana, expecting others to quit smoking and etc. You are not a martyr.

Marijuana, as discussed, is very much so a relaxing drug. Putting you in a state out of the ordinary from the normal every day life. One that relaxes me, and many of my friends. It helps me through tough times. If Im having horrible days, and I just dont like my life at that time, I'll go buy some marijuana and smoke it when Im at my worst. I dont even smoke to get high, just the...act of smoking relaxes me. I actually don't even LIKE being high. But its something I will deal with, to feel alright..or to..well I don't need to rant about my personal life anymore. But I happen to prefer the taste of some nice marijuana over tobacco. I'd rather not get physically addicted to anything, so marijuana is the deal for me. Mental addiction? Hardly. I could quit whenever I liked, I just wouldn't like it very much. If that constitutes a mental addiction to you, then so be it, thats your opinion.

But either way, my mentality hasn't suffered any, I still function in every day life just fine.

THAT is my "smart and logical coherent manner". Because, I keep it to myself. So it seems smart enough, my intelligence sure hasnt suffered any. Its logical to me because it seems just fine. Logical could mean something completely different to another person, but to ME its logical. Its far better than other things I could be doing. As for coherent, I don't like to get high anyhow, but if I do, its no big deal. It can be nice.

But by the way, you might want to research the rest of the population, because Im PRETTY sure that they do some MUCH worse shit that marijuana. IE Heroin, cocain, alchohol abuse...etc. So before you talk about the alertness of the populous how about you bring up something about the over use of deadly drugs, and the like.

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don't put words into my mouth. smoking pot is not a smart logical and coherent manner to deal with your problems.

well, here it becomes impossible to prove, one way or the other. i personally know that marijuana 'balances me out,' so to speak, but there isnt any way to prove this, so theres really no point in further discussion.

 

i say the high from marijuana has positive effects on me, you say it has negative. healthwise, you may be right. unless, of course, im eating marijuana, in which case its no worse than spinach. but there is no point in debating whether or not the high from marijuana is in any way debilitating to an experienced user.

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1. weed smells better than marinol or whatever shit.

2. its more fun passin around a bong/join/blunt/pipe/some homemade shit than some shitty ass pill.

3. its more fun doin tricks like circles and genie

4. i dont think i can ever EVER EVER get through school without weed. otherwise id be goin to some shitty ass school, missin debate.

5. weed makes everything fun

6. cooking with weed is tha best shit. maybe get some tea or cook some spaghetti

7. sun chips and pepsi rock. i hate alcohol

8. floydian....come to my house...take a hit....and chill

 

fuck u guys...ive maintained a 3.35 while beein blown most of high school time

 

BTW-ive been off for a week and countin....

you're a head on collision waiting to happen. what, you're 14? 15? you've been smoking for a year or two now (if that)? you assume you're a self-styled master of the pot-smoking realm. like you're some kind of unique intellectual toughshit. well, you're not. you're not unique. what? you plan to smoke dope and act like an illiterate all your life? go ahead. live with your mom until you're 24. keep distorting the truth to believe you are in some way going to change the world around you. keep distorting the truth that you're actually going to accomplish something smoking pot. i've been there. i've done that. but, what are you going to do when you get arrested? are you going to keep distorting reality by saying things like "well, i'm just going to be smart this time and not get busted?" that's laughable. are you blind to the insanity that is embedded in saying that? or are you going to change your ways before they change you? what? i don't know what i'm talking about? what are you going to do when your family finds out? are you going to still hind behind your web of lies and deception? "this was the first time, i swear!" deceiving them with the same shit that forms your faulty perception of reality. do you even care about people who love you? or have you lost track of that feeling when trying to escape stress, anxiety, pain, fear, and any other feeling that makes you uncomfortable? why should you give a shit? because they care about you. they want you to do good things with your life. they want you to accomplish something. no, why care? just keep doing the same shit expecting different results. keep on truckin'. but, if you are as intelligent as you claim, you'd know that inevitably, smoking dope always has the same end to the story. there is no alternative ending. whatever. keep on living the lie. no one's going to play the harp when you die.

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Floydian in several arguments you state that marijuana is the second most dangerous drug while driving. There is no evidence of that, I personally have driven with several stoned drivers, and all of them take extra precautions, because they are aware that they are high. Even if it is really the case that Marijuana is bad while driving, and there is unbias scientific evidence to back it up then the simple solution is to make high driving illegal.

 

You also mention family problems in relation to the fact that your loved ones would be appalled that you do such an atrocious thing such as smoke pot. Do you know why they are so appalled? Because they fear for your safety, you can go to jail, get fined, lose scholarship money. There are so many negative consequences that woud be eliminated. If it were legalized or decriminalized it would just be as if you were smoking cigaretes. The current cigarete reaction is nothing like "WHAT? You smoke cigaretes? GASP!"

 

How is it that you can discount the billions of dollars that would be saved from the peoples in the prisons coming from the taxpayers money. Although it sounds small in the scheme of things it really isn't. Majority of the money goes towards the military, social security, and other things. In the end there isn't much money left to distribute compared to what was originally in the treasury. These so called petty billions of dollars can go a long ways.

 

This is all from the standpoint from a person who does not smoke cigaretes or marijuana, but has many friends that do. I have done my research, quite likely not as much as you, but i do in fact find evidence to back up my opinions before i support them. I choose not to smoke marijuana because i believe in being myself, being able to make rational decisions, and i do not need marijuana to deal with life's problems as you said earlier as the devil's advocate. Although I do not smoke marijuana does not mean it is acceptable to deny me the right to do so. Illegalizing something that only potentially minorly injures myself through health reasons is illogical. Following this rationale alcohol, tobacco, and cigaretes should be illegal. But as you pointed out that is a different matter than "adding to the problems which already exist". (Note this is not a quote, rather my interpretation and summarization of what you stated.)

 

And the person who believes it is only our duty to abide with the law and not determine them. To put it simply: YOU ARE SO WRONG. If a law is unjust and unfair it is our duty to stand up and tell the government so. It's not your job as an American citizen to live with an unjust law. And who do you think makes the laws? Some magical beings with the power to give and end all life? NO. They are ordinary, rich, white, CEOs with many connections, but nonetheless people. They are not gods, and they are certainly not perfect. When they do something wrong it is our job to tell them, and to do so quickly.

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I'd continue, but I feel my point has been made, and these people you are 'debating' against have no 'mad skills,' so it's like beating up on retarded kids.

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agreed. nothing new is being brought up. it's just getting repititious in a less coherent manner. if i continued, it'd just be repeating myself, because it's the same shit that has already been said.

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I believe my post when I posted it was in fact coherent, and quite relevant, especially since I bring up a counter-point to the argument that your family will be apalled at your smoking weed.

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Ok you guys are seriously starting to insult people here. Its supposed to be a debate, not an intelligent flame war.

Im sure that people would realise when they are in a huge downward spiral, and notice that its not doing them any good. If someone smokes for NO reason because of their tolerance, they will notice. Because 1, its wasting money, and 2, its a waste of time and lighter fluid. If someone seriously hinders their every day lives with drugs ie: marijuana, they will notice. If they have enough will power to do something in life they will. But all people who smoke marijuana are NOT stoners, stupid, going nowhere in life, or in any way wasting their lives at all.

The majority of people who smoke, probably do it at parties or at home. When they would normally be doing nothing productive anyway. You can't expect everyone to be so content with their life, that they would be alright with just sitting around doing nothing. Smoking is most likely just a relaxer for a lot of people. It's not like its harming them. I doubt they smoke during the day before going out to work or anything like that. Besides, it doesnt hurt you any for them to smoke alone at home. Or to smoke to get rid of THEIR problems. If they were getting high before going to work or school, and showing up blazed, then I could understand your frustration with them. I dont like hanging out with high people, so i understand. But I do smoke, so I have views from both sides. But you guys are just getting plain out hostile, and rude. Its a fucking debate. Settle the fuck down and quit being so insulting.

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I'd continue, but I feel my point has been made, and these people you are 'debating' against have no 'mad skills,' so it's like beating up on retarded kids.
qfa.

and, furthermore, this was a flame war from the beginning. i've learned you're not going to get a good debate on this topic from inexperienced high school kids. period. you're just repeating what has already been said.

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I'm trying to maintain an atmosphere condusive to real debate and not flame wars. I have deleted about 15 posts in this thread. Please people help me out and act more mature.

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I believe it has been implied that I am repeating old information that will evoke the same responses, when in fact I am providing fresh responses to you arguments. I still am waiting for a response to my arguments.

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I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so pardon me if I am repeating something someone else has said.

 

Floydian, when you talk about cannibus trafficing deaths I believe you fail to realize that drug traffiing only occurs because cannibus is illegal.

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hehe... i love this topic.

 

(Correct me if I'm wrong, Floydian, although I trust you will...) There has never been a case in marijuana's odd 2000 year history where someone "overdosed" and died. So all the "bad" effects listed are abuse rather than "usage."

 

Another thing I've noticed on the forum is that we're talking bad/good rather than "should it be legal/illegal?" Once marijuana isn't horrible unless it's abused the government shouldn't regulate. We're talking freedom of choice here... Although it seems to be slowly evolving this way, the government shouldn't be the "parent" of the population. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be consequences should an individual choose to abuse a substance--alcohol, marijuana, TYLENOL...--and ESPECIALLY if those decisions harm others (car accidents etc).

 

Also, interesting things to think about: a. the initial banning of marijuana was rascist. Much like the banning of opium b/c of the hatred of the Chinese immigrants (way back in the yester year before scientific advances that give us wonderul data as to what will kill us and why...) marijuana was banned to stick it to the Mexicans. b. Marijuana penalties can often be harsher than RAPE penalties...

 

Something's got to be messed up in the U.S of A... :confused:

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I believe it has been implied that I am repeating old information that will evoke the same responses, when in fact I am providing fresh responses to you arguments. I still am waiting for a response to my arguments.
i didn't answer it because it was a bad argument. the only semi-unique argument made, no matter how wrong it is.
You also mention family problems in relation to the fact that your loved ones would be appalled that you do such an atrocious thing such as smoke pot. Do you know why they are so appalled? Because they fear for your safety, you can go to jail, get fined, lose scholarship money. There are so many negative consequences that woud be eliminated. If it were legalized or decriminalized it would just be as if you were smoking cigaretes. The current cigarete reaction is nothing like "WHAT? You smoke cigaretes? GASP!"
this isn't what i meant at all when i was talking about how they hurt family relationships. what i meant by this was that marijuana makes the user emotionally unavailible to the rest of the world. and the sad part is, people that smoke marijuana have a distorted perception of reality, and fail to see that they aren't even there for their friends and family. just as an example that i read, a 53 year old man named jeff referred to his marijuana use and family life this was: "i work hard every day, come home when i'm supposed to, smoke a joint and relax with my family." but, his 11 year old daughter saw things much differently, she described it as "after daddy comes home from work, he goes to the garage to smoke his pot. after that, he just sits in his chair and watches tv - he never does anything." a relationship requires more than just a warm body in a chair. loving relationships, especially those between parent/children demand a certain emotional avaibility, one that marijuana produces the opposite of. the florida brain institute interviewed a man recovering from marijuana use, he described it as "it wasn't really me - it was a drug-induced version of me. i was incapable of real feelings. the lights were on, but nobody was home." moving on, claiming that the legalization effort would somehow make people have more respect for people who smoke pot is ridiculous, it wouldn't change people's opinions on the drug just because it is legal. true, the "crime rate" would go down if smoking pot was legal, but so would legalizing murder or stealing. just because the "crime rate" goes down by making an unhealthy activity legal doesn't mean it benefits our society or anyone in it.

 

Illegalizing something that only potentially minorly injures myself through health reasons is illogical. Following this rationale alcohol, tobacco, and cigaretes should be illegal. But as you pointed out that is a different matter than "adding to the problems which already exist". (Note this is not a quote, rather my interpretation and summarization of what you stated.)

once again, you missed my point. im not saying we should legalize it 'because alcohol is worse.' i am saying that we know alcohol is worse for us, but it remains legal: so why then are we keeping pot illegal on the basis of health? under that argument we should also illegalize McDonalds.
since both of these arguments are exactly the same, and i've answered this twice already (i believe), i'll just reemphasize. why would we make alcohol or tobacco products illegal and legalize marijuana? it's like saving someone from the electric chair just to lead them infront of a firing squad. it's counterproductive and stupid. like i said before, boasting that marijuana as the "lesser of evils" in terms of public health consequences is not a convincing argument for legalizing its use.

 

okay moving on.

 

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread so pardon me if I am repeating something someone else has said.

 

Floydian, when you talk about cannibus trafficing deaths I believe you fail to realize that drug traffiing only occurs because cannibus is illegal.

i'm failing to recognize if you are talking about drug trafficking or traffic accidents. neither makes coherent sense out of that statement. i assume you mean drug trafficking (correct me if i am wrong), there aren't many deaths involved in the dealing of pot alone, i acknowledge that - this wasn't an issue in my arguments against legalizing pot, but even if marijuana was legal, drug trafficking would still exist, and it would be just as prominent as it is today, or even more. i adressed this earlier. why would people buy pot from the government and pay the tax and a higher price when you can get it from a friend that grew it for half the price? the government won't be able to control the production of pot, this is one of the main reasons why pot will never be legalized, atleast not in our lifetime.

 

i'm going to edit this, and add the number of the post that talked about this here. okay, it was post #45 that this was mentioned.

 

hehe... i love this topic.

 

(Correct me if I'm wrong, Floydian, although I trust you will...) There has never been a case in marijuana's odd 2000 year history where someone "overdosed" and died. So all the "bad" effects listed are abuse rather than "usage."

 

Another thing I've noticed on the forum is that we're talking bad/good rather than "should it be legal/illegal?" Once marijuana isn't horrible unless it's abused the government shouldn't regulate. We're talking freedom of choice here... Although it seems to be slowly evolving this way, the government shouldn't be the "parent" of the population. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be consequences should an individual choose to abuse a substance--alcohol, marijuana, TYLENOL...--and ESPECIALLY if those decisions harm others (car accidents etc).

 

Also, interesting things to think about: a. the initial banning of marijuana was rascist. Much like the banning of opium b/c of the hatred of the Chinese immigrants (way back in the yester year before scientific advances that give us wonderul data as to what will kill us and why...) marijuana was banned to stick it to the Mexicans. b. Marijuana penalties can often be harsher than RAPE penalties...

 

Something's got to be messed up in the U.S of A... :confused:

alright, first point you bring up. yes, no one has ever overdosed in a manner on marijuana that caused a direct and immediate death. but, claiming that marijuana has never killed anyone is misleading. it's like saying alcohol has killed only a marginal amount of people. because by saying marijuana has never killed anyone, you are neglecting all the indirect deaths involved. like negating all the traffic deaths involved with alcohol. like i said, you can't overdose in a manner that kills you, but that doesn't mean you can't overdose on marijuana. smoking too much is overdosing. the point where you smoke your brain to a mindstate of retardation. the last claim in that first paragraph doesn't make any cognizant sense. prolonged use of the drug can cause any number of the negative effects i've mentioned. furthermore, there are temporary negative effects and long-term negative effects that come from smoking. i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. okay, second paragraph, actually, i've been arguing why pot should be illegal in many cases in this thread.

 

there are plenty of reasons why marijuana should remain illegal. marijuana is not some harmless benign drug. marijuana use can lead to poor motivation syndrome and increased rates of schizophrenia and depression. and lung diseases like asthma, emphysema and even lung cancer. for children and adolescents, whose brains are still developing, the use of psychoactive drugs is especially bad. if we were to legalize another addictive substance, it will increase the supply of availible to kids. it also sends the message that pot smoking is condoned. and obviously, marijuana is a gateway drug. physicians treat thousands of patients for illnesses related to drug abuse. a majority say that it started with pot. and, obviously the aforementioned reasons. i mean, even a stoner would concede that traffic accidents would go up if pot was legalized. it's inevitable. go ahead, tell me i'm brainwashed, lying, bias, whatever. there just isn't a convincing case for legalization.
these aren't the only reasons i have provided, there are more throughout. wesmdow made some very bad arguments on it that i have neglected to argue for a lack of wanting to waste my time. yet, the only argument for legalization seems to be that we are "wasting" space in our jails, and a very marginal yet "valuable" amount of money on it. okay... finally, the last paragraph: subpoint a was mentioned in this first article chris (neural link) posted. while i would tend to agree that there may be a need for reform to the drug laws to make them less susceptible by race, this doesn't help the argument for the legalization of marijuana. and to subpoint b, this is only helping the decriminalization effort, which is a very different thing from legalizing.

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you're a head on collision waiting to happen. what, you're 14? 15? you've been smoking for a year or two now (if that)? you assume you're a self-styled master of the pot-smoking realm. like you're some kind of unique intellectual toughshit. well, you're not. you're not unique. what? you plan to smoke dope and act like an illiterate all your life? go ahead. live with your mom until you're 24. keep distorting the truth to believe you are in some way going to change the world around you. keep distorting the truth that you're actually going to accomplish something smoking pot. i've been there. i've done that. but, what are you going to do when you get arrested? are you going to keep distorting reality by saying things like "well, i'm just going to be smart this time and not get busted?" that's laughable. are you blind to the insanity that is embedded in saying that? or are you going to change your ways before they change you? what? i don't know what i'm talking about? what are you going to do when your family finds out? are you going to still hind behind your web of lies and deception? "this was the first time, i swear!" deceiving them with the same shit that forms your faulty perception of reality. do you even care about people who love you? or have you lost track of that feeling when trying to escape stress, anxiety, pain, fear, and any other feeling that makes you uncomfortable? why should you give a shit? because they care about you. they want you to do good things with your life. they want you to accomplish something. no, why care? just keep doing the same shit expecting different results. keep on truckin'. but, if you are as intelligent as you claim, you'd know that inevitably, smoking dope always has the same end to the story. there is no alternative ending. whatever. keep on living the lie. no one's going to play the harp when you die.

 

I can't believe people let you get away with this (I suppose to not look like an idiot I'll assume you're still playing devil's advocate). I mean, let's be serious here, you can't make decisions for other people based strictly one your own experiences or observations you've made on other people who've smoked pot. Why? Because you haven't met every person who has smoked. Maybe someone smokes once a month, maybe the smoke once a year, you can't make the prediction they're going to bottom out as a failure, and even if you can, you have no right to put them in jail for their decision or give them a huge assed fine for it, not only because it's an asshole thing to do, but because it doesn't do anything to deal with potential drug abuse, if people are using pot to escape reality, putting them in jail doesn't really take away any incentive.

 

Furthermore, what if the parents know the kid smokes pot and just care s/he does it safely and in moderation, or they just trust the kid to do be smart about it. This is all assuming if pot were to be legalized little kids would be able to smoke it, which I think wouldn't be true. 18 year olds can make decisions for themselves.

 

Smoking pot isn't a way to accomplish something, neither is alcohol, neither is eating really good chocolate and neither is jacking off, it's a recreational activity that when done in moderation is not a bad thing. You won't magically become or start acting illiterate once you smoke it, I've read a book while high, it was actually a pretty interesting experience. I only smoke in the privacy of my own home, that way there's not really a way I can busted, I know 60 year olds and a mass number of people who have been smoking pot all of their lives and have never got busted, you simply can't legitimately make the statement that smoking pot will inevitably send you to jail. I also know many successful adults who smoke pot. It's stupid and something found in a "it's more dangerous than we all thought" commercial to say that once you smoke pot you have no future, it's a purely unsubtantiated claim.

 

Kudos so far though, you emulate fox news pretty darn well.

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alright, first point you bring up. yes, no one has ever overdosed in a manner on marijuana that caused a direct and immediate death. but, claiming that marijuana has never killed anyone is misleading. it's like saying alcohol has killed only a marginal amount of people. because by saying marijuana has never killed anyone, you are neglecting all the indirect deaths involved. like negating all the traffic deaths involved with alcohol. like i said, you can't overdose in a manner that kills you, but that doesn't mean you can't overdose on marijuana. smoking too much is overdosing. the point where you smoke your brain to a mindstate of retardation. the last claim in that first paragraph doesn't make any cognizant sense. prolonged use of the drug can cause any number of the negative effects i've mentioned. furthermore, there are temporary negative effects and long-term negative effects that come from smoking. i'm not sure what point you are trying to make. okay, second paragraph, actually, i've been arguing why pot should be illegal in many cases in this thread.

 

Mmm... okay :sob: I hate when I don't write "cognizantly". shawies. I promise I'm not high though..haha. :wavey:

 

My point is:

 

(1) one can't overdose on pot.--get to your mental retardation here in a second--

 

(2) Thus, all the harms you point out in your argument against marijuana health, familial, and "mental retardation" comes from one's ABUSE of marijuana not the USE and there's a substantial difference. One could ABUSE any kind of drug and produce the same side effects you suggest (ie. HYPOTHETICALLY: I could take hefty amounts of night quill and attempt to drive to California. I could take exsessive amounts of ZOLOFT and "remove" myself from reality and family. In those instances I should be held accountable for my choices and actions not the entire population that could possibly benefit from ZOLOFT and Nyquil. "Nothing in excess." Excess, is the problem, dear smart college person, excess.

 

(4)Further, the "lesser evil" arguments help feed my case because they prove that even at marijuana's WORST it is still a lesser evil.

 

(5) Thus, ABUSE should be prosecuted but USE should not be illegal. This is the fairest compromise that retains an individual's right of choice but those who harm others are still under the eyes of justice.

 

(6) Reasons the law is bad. a. Marijuana became illegal as a result of rascist policy making hence, a good reason to reject it flat out (I'm challenging your presumption) And as mentioned by previous posters-- its still remains rascist. b. The beyond "eye for an eye" punishment (we're talking up to 90 years for marijuana possess/sales--I'm not even talking about the crimes RESULTING from the drug abuse that you eloquently point out) This enforces suspicions of rascism in the policy and should also be rejected on unfair legal practice.

 

I hope this cleared it up a bit more?? Please respond to the "individual rights" args cuz that really is the center of my position.

 

Also, mad props on being the only one on this thread arguing pro SQUO. hahah.

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I can't believe people let you get away with this (I suppose to not look like an idiot I'll assume you're still playing devil's advocate). I mean, let's be serious here, you can't make decisions for other people based strictly one your own experiences or observations you've made on other people who've smoked pot. Why? Because you haven't met every person who has smoked. Maybe someone smokes once a month, maybe the smoke once a year, you can't make the prediction they're going to bottom out as a failure, and even if you can, you have no right to put them in jail for their decision or give them a huge assed fine for it, not only because it's an asshole thing to do, but because it doesn't do anything to deal with potential drug abuse, if people are using pot to escape reality, putting them in jail doesn't really take away any incentive.

 

Furthermore, what if the parents know the kid smokes pot and just care s/he does it safely and in moderation, or they just trust the kid to do be smart about it. This is all assuming if pot were to be legalized little kids would be able to smoke it, which I think wouldn't be true. 18 year olds can make decisions for themselves.

 

Smoking pot isn't a way to accomplish something, neither is alcohol, neither is eating really good chocolate and neither is jacking off, it's a recreational activity that when done in moderation is not a bad thing. You won't magically become or start acting illiterate once you smoke it, I've read a book while high, it was actually a pretty interesting experience. I only smoke in the privacy of my own home, that way there's not really a way I can busted, I know 60 year olds and a mass number of people who have been smoking pot all of their lives and have never got busted, you simply can't legitimately make the statement that smoking pot will inevitably send you to jail. I also know many successful adults who smoke pot. It's stupid and something found in a "it's more dangerous than we all thought" commercial to say that once you smoke pot you have no future, it's a purely unsubtantiated claim.

 

Kudos so far though, you emulate fox news pretty darn well.

ahhhhh. my computer restarted just as i was basically on the last line of this post. i'll try to rewrite what i said. although i am still playing the devil's advocate in a way, i do feel passionately about a lot of this. i'm not making decisions just based solely on my own experience or a select few around me. this is coming from the many many people i've had the opportunity to meet in my 20 year life. no, i haven't met everyone who has smoked pot, and neither has anyone else. sure, some people may smoke once a month, or once a year even. but, if you read what i said, it was directed to one specific person (the one who claimed to "being blown all through high school" or however it was worded) and to anyone else it applies to, but thanks for generalizing my entire post to applying to everyone. i didn't make the laws, i'm not throwing anyone in jail. and like i mentioned before in this thread, "it isn't your duty to determine the laws. as a citizen of this country, your duty is to obey the laws put forth by the government. if you don't want to obey them, then you are willingly putting yourself in the position to suffer the consequences for breaking the laws. people know the laws, ignorance is no reason to break them." essentially, if you want to break the laws, you have to be able to come to terms with the consequences put in place for them. i have never been to a treatment center, so i can not advocate for or against them. i have met many people who have been through rehab programs, and i have received mixed messages. some people have said they left with even more incentive to use than they had before, and others say that it helped them to resolve their addiction. do i believe it would be a plausible idea for the government to explore the possibility of using treatment centers as a form of punishment for drug offenses? yeah, sure, i think it would be a good idea, but the fact is, the consequences that are in place are they way they are, and they aren't going to change any time soon. so, you can either choose to knowingly break the laws and put yourself in a position to pay the price, or you can just not break the laws and not have to worry about it. those are your options. i didn't make them, and it doesn't mean i agree with them. but that's how it is. okay, moving on. read my post above yours as to what smoking pot can do to your family. furthermore, i would contend that there is no safe way to use pot. some ways are safer than others, but there is no way to use pot 100% safely. it is illegal, and under any number of specific circumstances, you could be arrested at any point in participating in it. i believe i said suggested earlier in this thread, that everyone who smokes pot and/or does drugs should go to their parents and with honesty, tell them what drugs they use, how long they've been using, and on what kind of time basis they use them. i would like to see their reaction. a majority would be adverse. through my experience and others i have met, one who smokes pot constantly has to lie to their family. i have yet to find someone who has been honest about their use 100% from day one. in fact, a lot of times, you lie so much that you find yourself covering up your lies with another lie. how can a parent trust their child to be smart and reasonable with their decisions if their kid can't even be honest with them? do you honestly believe that if pot was legalized, they'd be able to prevent people under 18 from using? in fact, i think it would increase the number of those who use under the age of 18. it would increase the accessibility of the drug for those under 18. supply and demand would not be an issue. pot would be just as easy to acquire as cigarettes, and that's not a good thing. okay moving on, for some people, pot can be a drug used in moderation and used recreationally. but, if it were legal, there would be no way to regulate who receives the drug between those who use is responsibly and those who do not. you could use the analogy, one bad egg ruins the dozen. one person can ruin it for the rest of the population. i didn't mean illiterate in the literal sense, i meant illiterate to society. i touched on how smoking in your house isn't a 100% safe way to use it. let me clarify what i meant, there is a number of situations that could lead you to get arrested, even when smoking in the restraints of your own premises. like your neighbors seeing you or one of your family members barging in on you and calling the cops. okay, so you know a 60 year old and some people who have been smoking all their life that have never been arrested, but i would like you to ask these people if they have never suffered any hardship at all whatsoever at any point in any distinct time that was related to their use. if they haven't, then they are truely abnormal. i honestly don't know which is worse, living a lie your entire life, or being arrested. living lies can be a prison much worse than a literal one. and furthermore, what have these people contributed to the society around them? i'm not saying everyone who has ever smoked a joint is doomed to fail, but what i am saying is that someone who thinks they can blow by life high all the time is going to fail.

 

kudos, though, you've done a good job of generalizing everything i say.

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Didn't Thoreau say it was a citizen's duty to break unjust laws?
no. basically, he said if the law causes you to do injustice to others, then you should break the law. but, thoreau also said essentially, in the same paragraph, that men should abide to a law until they amend it.

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