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VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - VHSL THREATENS ALL VIRGINIA PROGRAMS WITH PROPOSED RULE

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HI, JUST SO YOU KNOW - AT THIS WEEK'S VHSL EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING THE STATE IS LOOKING AT REDUCING THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF TOURNAMENTS A TEAM OR DEBATER CAN ATTEND FROM 16 A YEAR TO 13.

 

As you know, a debater may now attend 16 tournaments a year - not counting District/Regional/State competition. Post this rule you will not be allowed to attend more than 13 tournaments a year - and for the first time ever they are dividing JV and Varsity - you can't go to more than 13 Varsity tournaments or no more than 10 JV tournaments a year. And, the way the rule is written it seems to indicate that a single team from a single school going to a tournament counts against the 13 maximum tournaments.

 

Info on the rule is here: http://vhsl.org/05decagenda.doc

 

Furthermore, if you read the rules carefully, you will note two other troubling things:

 

1) 8th graders may no longer participate in the varsity division - they ban it. Under the new rules, 8th graders can only compete at the sub-varsity level

 

2) Sunday and Monday debating would be out of the question as VHSL Activity play dates will be restricted to Thurs/Fri/Sat - as per the propsal.

 

The rules apply to sports and all other activities.

 

The VHSL is voting on this on Wednesday - PLEASE GO TO YOUR COACHES AND GET THEM TO GO TO YOUR PRINCIPALS. THIS RULE WILL CRIPPLE THE DEVELOPMENT OF DEBATE IN VIRGINIA - THIS IS A VERY VITAL ISSUE AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO SNEAK IT IN. AND, REMEMBER - WACFL + CFL NATS IS 7 TOURNAMENTS - LEAVING YOU WITH ONLY 6 MORE TO GO TO IF THIS RULE PASSES. FOR JV IT'S WORSE - 5 WACFLS PLUS METROS IS 6, LEAVING YOU 4 MORE TO GO TO.

 

Mr. H.

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I do love the "we'll ensure no child is left behind by keeping everyone behind" strategy for ensuring "competitive equity."

 

But hey, it's a red state.

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Seth..this is serious..it will kill programs that are starting to make real dents nationally, and it will kill programs that want to go that route in the future. Duane

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Seth..this is serious..it will kill programs that are starting to make real dents nationally, and it will kill programs that want to go that route in the future. Duane

 

There was clearly a mocking tone in my message indicating my dissatisfaction with the rule.

 

That said, I do think "kill" the programs is probably a bit harsh.

 

1) 8th graders probably SHOULDN'T be in varsity anyway

 

2) The rule (notwithstanding its grammatical error) is only worded to restrict VHSL events to Tnur-Sat - not ALL events. "VHSL activities [sic] play dates shall be scheduled on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays." Further, the wording in general is ambiguous enough to accomodate a number of interpretations. Ie, "total number of regular season interscholastic contests." Clearly the rule is designed to expand the post-season, "perhaps an increase in the number of teams qualifying for post-season events," which indicates to me that they either are not considering or anticipating the existence of "non-VHSL" events. Remember, few other activities have them.

 

3) I read the rule as, at a minimum, applying to an event-by-event limitation. Ie, an LD team or Policy team, or IE team - not anything the school goes to disqualifies all other events. If it were, the old rule would have long sunk teams like ours that are entered in almost every event at almost every tournament. Further, it could be just as easily argued that a single "2 person policy team" is a team under the rule.

 

4) Few schools, even those attempting to test the national circuit, will push 4+ national tournaments in addition to doing a full local circuit including qualifiers and nationals.

 

5) Many states, my previous one comes to mind, have equally if not more draconian limitations on numbers of competitions or season dates and yet field a number of competitive national teams. Schools have always gotten around this either by a lack of enforcement or simply picking a couple of tournaments to go "independent" at.

 

I think you can make reasonable in-roads with principals by arguing that unlike other "team" sports, competitiors here don't attend all of the tournaments the school attends meaning the rule's applicability is poorly suited to debate. But, if you say programs will be killed to these people they will laugh -- especially since most are only use to kids going to VHSL quals and states.

 

If anyone should be worried, it should be non-policy types who face serious limitations when you start throwing in the large collection of NoVAFL events into the mix.

 

All that said, I would echo that the rule should be struck.. since, as I said, its no different than the failed "no child left behind" policy of keeping ALL kids back to accomodate the stragglers.

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HI, LOL...I meant kill in the following way - you put a limit of 13 tourneys on me. WACFL + NCFL Nationals means 7 of the 13 are gone. I now have 6 to chose from. What do I chose?

 

Scenario 1: VA Early Bird, Broad Run, JMU, GMU, Potomac Falls. THat gives me 12, and maybe I take a team to GDS.

 

Scenario 2: Wake, GDS, Glenbrooks, O Valley, Lexington, Harvard

 

Now you could also balance the two..I don't know..it's odd.

 

Anyway, just got off the phone with VHSL and they think the rule won't pass, but we'll see.

 

H.

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Are these VHSL rules actually enforced? What's the punishment?

 

I've already gone to 5 tournaments this year and plan on going to at least 10 more by conservative estimate, not counting VHSL. That would mean I'd be at least 2 over the limit - but would anyone actually care and prevent me from flying out to Boston/Atlanta, etc.?

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I've fallen into a "so glad I'm leaving in less than a year" mood about almost everything, which is kind of bad.

 

for instance, the fire marshall hates TJ and keeps on scheduling "surprise" inspections to justify suing us and taking away priviledges. it's really crappy.

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the fire marshall hates TJ and keeps on scheduling "surprise" inspections to justify suing us and taking away priviledges.

On face value that’s rather amusing though. Like a bunch of kids rioting against the fire department. Uh, not that that depiction is accurate by any means.

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haha, actually..I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.

 

During Homecoming week, they tore down Spirit Halls, which people spent literally hours on, and no one got to see the halls. Worse, everybody was "imprisoned" for 2 hours in the morning, b/c it was too much of a fire hazard to go to class.

 

now they're going to inspect during lunch, so they can try to take away lunch priviledges by splitting lunch blocks and making us all eat in the cafeteria. right now... everybody has lunch at the same time, and we can sit wherever we want.

 

so basically...everybody's pissed off at the fire marshall. including our principal.

 

and the image of TJ kids tackling the fire marshall is just priceless. =) this coming from a school that had 1/2 fight total last year (some jr wanted to get expelled b/c his parents were making him go to TJ and he hated it - and so he punched someone else. the other kid didn't fight back... and the first kid only got suspended, not expelled)

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(some jr wanted to get expelled b/c his parents were making him go to TJ and he hated it - and so he punched someone else. the other kid didn't fight back... and the first kid only got suspended, not expelled)

Also priceless.

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The rules are indeed enforced, and if you are caught breaking the rules the punishment is quite draconian - simply put, your debate program gets suspended from VHSL competition for some time - and, if they are feeling particulary nasty, and the abuse is serious enough - like acknowledging in a public forum that you may break the rules, and then actually breaking them, they can ban every single VHSL activity at your school for one year based on the actions of your VHSL activity - the theory being that if one breaks the rules, all must pay - I would pay close attention to the VHSL Rules, mainly because myself and other coaches pay attention to the rules, and we pay attention to who doesn't pay attention to the rules. H.

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I've already gone to 5 tournaments this year and plan on going to at least 10 more by conservative estimate, not counting VHSL. That would mean I'd be at least 2 over the limit -QUOTE]

 

I thought TJ was supposed to be a smart place... :P why would you post that when you know someone like Mr. H will be looking at it haha

 

shank

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No, It's not that I love the rules, but the rules, sadly are the rules and we muste play by them. I would love to do 20 or more tourneys a year - but 16 is the limit and that's that. However, I'm happy to see more Virginia teams traveling and debating well this year at the national level. It makes me think the work all the coaches have been doing for the past ten years hasn't been in vain.

 

H.

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The rules are indeed enforced, and if you are caught breaking the rules the punishment is quite draconian - simply put, your debate program gets suspended from VHSL competition for some time - and, if they are feeling particulary nasty, and the abuse is serious enough - like acknowledging in a public forum that you may break the rules, and then actually breaking them, they can ban every single VHSL activity at your school for one year based on the actions of your VHSL activity - the theory being that if one breaks the rules, all must pay - I would pay close attention to the VHSL Rules, mainly because myself and other coaches pay attention to the rules, and we pay attention to who doesn't pay attention to the rules. H.

 

narc

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good thing it's only a proposed rule and I don't plan on breaking it if it becomes real then.

 

and hey - more motivation to lobby against, eh?

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