WI: WDCA State Tourn of Champions (December 10-11)

[jacobi]

Greetings all,

This is about the third time I'm sitting down to compose a response to this discussion. Hopefully, I won't be interrupted by a faculty meeting and evening errands (my first after a week of having the "STOC ball-and-chain" attached).

First, let me congratulate all of the L-D debaters who qualified to the STOC this year. I was actually a judge on the finals panel in 2000, when Jason Ledger qualified to State in L-D, and I was merely the L-D coach for Rufus King. I have already gone on record as a supporter of this event, as well as Public Forum. The more debate events amidst an interp-dominated world of forensics, the better.

That's why I find some of the whining here a little disconcerting. STOC Director Laura Maly and I endeavored to only enhance the stature of L-D this year. We started by ordering -- for the first time ever -- trophies that measured up to the level of the VSS and V4 divisions. When I pointed that out on Saturday, people seemed so wrapped up in this debacle, they didn't even appreciate it. Perhaps we should just go back to the idiosyncratically-named "Distinguished Advocate" award, a holdover from the "exhibition" days of L-D. Moreover, per Nick Bubb's post on a similar thread here, I even endeavored to find some qualified judges. Just as I contacted one judge, he was hired by another coach. Out of eight judges contacted, only one came through. Another agreed and then backed out at the last minute. I then found one more judge, and he was not "preferred." Perhaps the coaches who support and bring L-D debaters to State should be part of the solution in bringing and finding qualified judges. We can spend an eternity complaining about the problem, or we can all be part of the solution.

Indeed, I am in the process of investigating, but know this: the WDCA is a volunteer-run organization. While the STOC directors receive a small stipend for their time, it is meant as a gesture of appreciation rather than a true compensation. I reluctantly accepted the position to try to enhance the experience for students; to make it special. When no one stepped forward this year and we had a constitutional crisis in terms of succession of the presidency, Ms. Maly and I felt this wasn't the year to bow out. As I just mentioned, people aren't knocking down doors to run the STOC. I even approached a few coaches about helping in the tab room, and was met with such responses as "I'd rather judge and coach my students." I say again: the WDCA is a volunteer-run organization and not many are stepping forward. My student, Samir, is right when he states that debate is dying in Wisconsin. Out of the hundreds upon hundreds of high schools in our state, the WDCA has fewer than 50 member schools! We need to accentuate the positive that happens and stop all this petty bickering. Though it sounds cliché, "united we stand, divided we fall." While I can't speak for Ms. Maly, I don't expect gushing thanks for this job, but I think the least we should expect is some respect and less intrique in this online marketplace of ideas.

No one took offense to anyone pointing out a tab error, Nick. Perhaps you misinterpreted a nonverbal reaction in the heat of a tournament when many things were happening at once. Mr. Hanson correctly pointed out that a computer problem with the V4 division reared its ugly head at the same time we were trying to deal with this L-D issue. The V4 error is what invariably led to the wrong information being inputted to the sweepstakes spreadsheet. On top of this, when I initially investigated the L-D issue, I found that the brackets had been changed in the L-D division, which is why the final round was delayed. I'd like to think the brackets were changed accidentally, but that is part of my investigation. That was why we had such a difficult time assigning the appropriate judges -- the computer was confused as to what the official brackets should be.

Jen - Mary talked to me after finals (I don't know who she would have talked to prior to then... I think she and I passed each other as "two ships in the night," because I was looking for a better final round judge as she was looking into the 6th round issue). I told her that Jennifer Limbach would be compensated with some type of quarterfinalist award if she rightfully deserved to advance. However, given the delay in L-D, and that the coaches involved in tabbing it leaving, there was no way to properly investigate this at the tournament, as you said.

If the officers tabbing L-D did change the decision after conferring with the judge, this change should have been reflected on the ballot. Again, that is part of the problem I am looking into. In a greater sense, I think this begs the need for some type of auditing process for elimination rounds. I constantly hear coaches asking for two things in debate: (1) greater accuracy in results, and (2) shorter tournaments (it costs money to keep a bus idling). These aren't mutually exclusive, though. One inextricably affects the other. You can't have greater accuracy without a longer tournament. So, the Tournament Practices and Procedures report for spring will reflect this admonition, accordingly.

Like I alluded to, an investigation is pending. This will take time. The L-D results will not be posted on the Web site within the next few days, until a final conclusion is reached. Again, realizing that volunteers are involved here, there is not a full-time staff that can spend all of its time looking into this. The tournament is over and we are attempting to right a possible wrong as much as can be. But, we also are trying to reclaim our lives after spending an entire week focused on the tournament. My classes were interrupted literally countless times last week by coaches calling me with various questions and for other tournament-related tasks (we almost didn't have trophies on time). I was happy to oblige. But now, I owe the students that I teach full time my undivided attention this week; the week before our final exams.

Many thanks in advance for your patience.

And again, congratulations to all of you. We have some amazing debaters in our state, and the Elmbrook School District has much to be proud of: consecutive championships in two varsity-level divisions at the state debate tournament: Brookfield East's Liz Vieira in L-D and Brookfield Central's Zach Brown (actually, his third year in a row) and Amit Bindra in VSS. Magnifique!

Cordially,
Mr. Adam J. Jacobi
WDCA STOC Operations Director, and
Director of Debate, Rufus King High School

[jacobi]

By the way, extending my argument on being an advocate of L-D, I'd like to point out that I have (A) quite persistently asked tournament hosts in southern Wisconsin to offer this division, and can now say that thanks to these efforts, L-D is offered almost every weekend, up from four or five that previously did not offer it; and (B) I also fought this year against eliminating L-D as an official WFCA event, because that assuredly would have discouraged speech tournaments from offering it on a weekly basis and continuing to foster practice in L-D during the winter-spring topic cycle. As long as we have three forensic organizations in our state, and as long as many schools are members of all of them, and as long as the egos of the people involved prevent the merger of these organizations for the greater good of all students involved, then what's the harm in crowning multiple state L-D champions. We're putting the cart before the horse if we try to abolish the existence of multiple state championships before abolishing the excess of organizations!

[shoeofmine]

Thanks Mr. Jacobi

We are greatful for your time and dont mean it as an attack on you.

You raised an interesting point though, you said that coaches want 1) faster pairings and 2) accurate pairings. I want to turn this into a defence of oral critiques... because its something i really belive in. I dont think that the two are mutaly exclusive at all, i think that one can help the other. Sure their are instances of bad ones/long ones, but that could be said the same about judges who write out bad ballots/take forever with their ballot. I really like how at glenbrooks they ONLY had speed ballots, and judges were expected to say somethign to debaters. They also understood at the same time to go quickly. I think its something that WI should think about.

[jacobi]

Ooh... good point, Jeremy. I wasn't complete in my reference here. Indeed, oral critiques do lend more accuracy (and the best defense I heard was that overall, forensics is the only competition where you don't know how you're doing as you progress). But, as part of the accuracy process for paired/elimination events (VSS and LD), perhaps oral critiques should be acknowledged and accounted for, though it does add some modicum of time, which would allow for auditing. Having been at The Glenbrooks, I agree that the speed ballot idea does have merit, too. Now, we're talking solutions! Thank you for the kind words, as well.

[michele]

Mr. Jacobi -

I think Jeremy is right in saying that any critcisms of the tournament are not personally-addressed (or at least shouldn't be) against any one person or group of people. I think most of the reasons why debaters talk about these sort of things to the extent that we can see from this thread, is that they want their activity to be seen as legitimate (as their coaches, and all the WDCA volunteers do) and just, since at its heart debate is about finding the "right" answer to a problem or a question. To that extent, the work done by those coaches and volunteers must not be in vain; students want to support the work done by the people in charge of tournaments and in the tab rooms, so that in future tournaments the true prestige of the tournament, its champions, and its officials and organizers is not overlooked because of some loop hole/mistake/etc. That's why they talk about ways to improve the way tournaments are run; judges and coaches also give feedback for this same reason - they want to improve the activity for the future.

I'm not sure you can ever get rid of comments. People will always say some decisions were shady (I've had multiple debaters tell me about decisions they found unjustified at the tournament this weekend, but these tend to be issues of adaptation, and the judge preferencing system has gone a long way to solve these issues - a *great* example of how comments from judges/coaches/students has made WI debate better!), people will always complain that tournaments aren't run well, etc. But most of all, people want tournaments not to get lost and forgotten as "illegitimate." I agree that for the most part coaches, judges, bus drivers, and parents are unsung heroes in this sport...but only when rules are fixed and procedures are clear can those heroes get the accolades they so rightfully deserve.

[Ijudgedb8]

I agree that some form of feedback right after the round can have positive impacts for the individual teams right away, There is just too much danger of abuse of the oral critique. For example, Neenah and Cedarburg were at TOC Friday night for at least 30 minutes after the 4 fourth round of VSS becuase the judge disclosed and the discussion that followed. This meant that Cedarburg (I was on the bus) got back home at 12:15.

I believe that some evolution of the rules with respect to VSS will take place. But until that does, coached and judges need to abide by the rules that exist. Open Cross-X, critiques, and the like are currently not allowed. Anyone who chooses violate the rules to the detrement of the tournament should face stiff consequences.

I also want to send my thanks out to Adam and Laura and the rest of the Tab staff. Despite whatever issues arose, TOC ran pretty close to schedule. Not many can claim that!

[Traasatae]

My Turn to weigh in...

First, Kudos to the staff of the STOC, Everything seemed to run efficiently. One of the most difficult tasks in the preparation for this tournament is assembling a pool of judges that is effecacious, functional, and appreciated by the coaches and debaters alike. LD and VSS has an even heavier burden with holding break rounds, and making sure that there are competent and willing judges to hang around to the end. So at this point, I would like to express appreciation to all judges that were there to judge rounds after awards, and those last dying dogs that hung around and judged the finals of VSS (Bill, Andy, Jess, Matt and Adam). It is sad that more folks don’t hang around and watch these amazing rounds. (at the East Challenge we force them to debate these rounds on stage (whether they like it or not… ahem… Megan) so there can be a large audience to appreciate those debates)

Second issue, oral critiques… we, as an association cannot seem to define exactly what an oral critique is, so here is my personal definition. “An oral critique is a verbally delivered decision and justification of that adjudicator’s reason for decision in place of a written ballot.” This is not what I would like to have happen. As a coach, I still would like to receive a written ballot with justification of reason for decision indicated clearly. However, I do believe that this can be done and there still can be verbal communication between the debaters and the adjudicator. But let’s not call that an oral critique, I prefer oral comments. I don’t think my position on this issue is or has ever been a secret… immediate feedback from the judge is absolutely invaluable to a good debater. Can comments be critical and tough? Yes, but so can an unjustified decision written on a ballot, or the sheer effect of just winning or losing. But debaters pick themselves back up and move on… which is an extremely important life lesson in any and every competitive activity. Reflect and move on! One of the greatest reasons that I like immediate feedback is that is forces the person sitting in the back of the room to really concentrate on the task at hand. When they have to verbally justify how and why they voted, it forces them to be much more involved mentally in the round that they are listening to. It brings the judge much closer to the students in a multitude of facets. (This is part of the reason for the greater camaraderie in the VSS and LD pools, I believe).

Third issue, LD… Yes, LD has existed in Wisconsin since the early 1980’s! (brief history here, again) For many years WHSFA held an LD state tournament and championship… it was held in the early part of April or late March, usually a week or two before the speech state tournament. But WHSFA held it’s last LD tournament in 1992. It is a little cloudy here but I believe there were less than 10 competitors at that tournament, and it was won by an Appleton East sophomore – Lindsay Schoenbohm. Then in 1993 WFCA held LD as an inclusive category in the WFCA state tournament for the first time. There were 20 competitors, and Roxanne Herb from Appleton East won the tournament. Roxanne was very successful that year… she won the Valley Mid America Cup and broke at every National Circuit tournament that she went to… including Wake Forest, St. Marks, and was invited to the Glenbrook North round robin. The next year Ben Bayer was in Semi-finals of the St. Marks tournament. So please understand that Wisconsin LD actually has a long tradition and was well represented nationally well before WDCA recognized it.

While I am on the history kick…

WDCA TOC VSS 1996-97 (Jan 18, 97) (the freeze bowl of Wausau) Finals was Appleton East Srikanth Reddy/Eric Kessenich over Brookfield Central ?? 4-1 (this debate actually didn’t take place until 2 weeks later at the end of the NFL qualifiers at Appleton West. Semis didn’t finish until almost 2 in the morning on that Sunday morning of the big freeze in Wausau. The tournament started on Saturday morning, and VSS debated 8 rounds from Saturday morning at 8:30 am until Sunday morning at about 1:35 am. Jeff Holt was the tournament director and Tom Noonan and I tabbed VSS and the last Open Switch Side division.) That specific tournament was part of the reason that STOC was moved to December. (Thursday and Friday of that tournament schools were closed all over the state because the temperatures were dipping to nearly 40 below zero, without wind chill) Thus the tournament was attempted to be completed within one day.
WDCA TOC VSS 1997-98 (Jan 16, 98) Finals was Nicolet Nicole Serrano Peter Klein over Appleton East Reddy/Kessenich… ballots were split, but don’t remember if there were 5 or 3 judges.
Going back a little further…
1994 WDCA TOC VSS champs… Appleton East John Brogan & Srinu Reddy (did not drop a ballot the entire tournament)
1993 WDCA TOC VSS champs… Appleton East Nathan Dintenfass & Ben Bayer
1992 WDCA TOC VSS runner-ups… Appleton East Jim Rose & Paul Hoffman… I don’t remember if they lost to Brook Central or Sheb North. This may have been the first year that WDCA held the varsity switch division.

Ahhh…. Nostalgia…

[nhans180]

And I think it is safe to say that LD is growing, thus the need to recognize it with some better bylaws within the WDCA I think. Maybe the key here is that LD was once regionally varsity in WI and now is becoming varsity across the state. What do people think about perhaps creating a 1st year division for LD at more tournaments? I'm not sure we should have that at STOC yet (or risk depletion), but is it time to maybe get together a few novice LD divisions in the state? Maybe I'll try running that next year.

[jacobi]

Nathan, wholeheartedly yes. When I held my tournament last month, one local coach contacted me, disheartened about two L-D powerhouse teams in the metropolitan area, who discourage growing/developing programs. Since the format of the L-D division at my tournament was a challenge, that only meant Round 1 could be tenuous for the novice L-Ders. So, I contacted all of the coaches involved in the division and asked if they wouldn't mind declaring their students as either "Experienced" or "Inexperienced." The seeding as it were, resulted in a fairly balanced start to the tournament, and debaters in both "brackets" were satisfied to have like levels of competition.

The interesting observation I make about L-D is its mere placement in the bylaws -- after Sweepstakes and after Middle School. That seems to indicate that it was inserted as an after-thought. If it's a two-day event with a one-level, varsity competition, why doesn't it count toward the first leg of sweepstakes, as well (instead of being put on par with JV and Novice)? Many things to think about here.

[Traasatae]

I would make the argument that creating a novice division in LD would not help the LD division. It would only take a small division and make it two much smaller divisions. Instead, I prefer a good 6 round division that is power paired. Once the power pairing kicks in, you have like records competing, thus allowing similar level debaters to debate each other, but still see quality too. The benefits of power pairing not only allow a true champion to rise to the top, but also allows less experienced debaters to meet each other. This is why I have always advocated power pairing with more prelim rounds.

Something Clif Morton use to do at the Hortonville tournament was to have both experience and inexperienced LDers together in the same pool, but when the prelims were done, and the top debaters would advance to breakrounds, he would also have break rounds for Novice LDers. Thus allowing for a big division, but also treating the novice debaters differently, with a potential to advance against other novices.

[bigbillybatman]

Long-term, the creation of a novice LD division would be sweet and is something the WDCA should aim for. Short-term, I agree with Mike that "novice breakout" divisions are the way to go. Coaches designate students as either "novice" or "varsity" before the tournament begins and the top four (for example) "novice" debaters who do not advance to the "varsity" elimination rounds get to debate in semifinals of their own "novice" elims.

~Bill

[Bubbs]

in 92 east lost to Sheb North. This has popped up a lot in my research of the North team. That team was Jason Renzelmen and Paul Maxon, and was probably the high water mark for Sheboygan Debate.

Mike and Bill's rearticulation of Cliff's idea is a good one. I know that there was one instance of a "novice LD" tournament during the forensics season when I was debating, but otherwise the pool was never large enough to justify this separtion. To have a separate novice break, while at the same time having a varsity break, will allow for more development in LD. I know some tournament directors will separate LD if it gets rather large. (If the Madison LD tournaments, forensics or debate, would have 30+ debaters, Tim and I would probably separate the divisions, unless they're all varsity).

So far as the by-laws/standing rules/operating procedures go: we might think about adding a back-door to the LD state tournament, like we do for policy. Currently, to get to the LD STOC you have to break to elimination rounds at a tournament. This can be pretty hard, especially when you have schools like Memorial, Brookfield East, Marquette, and the Appletons who travel out of state for LD, and can dominate elimination rounds when they are in state.

[nhans180]

Clif did a good job with breaking out novices in LD and VSS. I liked that. It gave new kids a shot at learning (through getting beat) during regular rounds and realistic competition in breaks.

[michele]

Interesting fact - in parli debate in college, every tournament does a Hortonville-style break, with overall varsity breaks and then a separate break (usually semis and finals) for novices. In the instance where there aren't enough judges to judge separate novice breaks, then they at least give separate novice speaker awards and novice team awards based on prelims...so even though novii might get screwed rounds 1 and 2, they still have something to look forward to because in reality they're just competing to beat the other novii.

[bigbillybatman]

Here are more WDCA STOC Varsity Switch-Sides results. I'm going to raid Traas' archive of past results someday but if anyone else has results packets/info from previous years, please email me (bill@mountaincry.com) and I'll add it to the list. At some point I'd love to get full results from each of these tournaments up on the web... I think that would be super-sweet. We're getting pretty close... if 1992-1993 was indeed the first year in which the WDCA held a VSS tournament, then we're only missing a handful of teams/names. Like I said, I'd love to do full results or even just top speakers, too.

Cool stuff.

1992-1993
Champion: Sheboygan North MR (Paul Maxon and Jason Renzelmen)
Runner-Up: Appleton East HR (Paul Hoffman and Jim Rose)

1993-1994
Champion: Appleton East BD (Ben Bayer and Nathan Dintenfass)
Runner-Up: Don't Know

1994-1995
Champion: Appleton East BR (John Brogan and Srinu Reddy)
Runner-Up: Don't know

1995-1996
Champion: Brookfield Central DF (Jason Deeken and Josh Friess)
Runner-Up: Brookfield East? (??)

1996-1997
Champion: Appleton East KR (Eric Kessenich and Srikanth Reddy)
Runner-Up: Brookfield Central FH (Josh Friess and Allen Hu)

1997-1998
Champion: Nicolet KS (Peter Klein and Nicole Serrano)
Runner-Up: Appleton East KR (Eric Kessenich and Srikanth Reddy)

1998-1999
Champion: Brookfield Central ES (Alison Eggert and Ankur Shah)
Runner-Up: Nicolet KN (Peter Klein and Ali Nikseresht)

1999-2000
Champion: Brookfield Central SS (Bill Schwartz and Ankur Shah)
Runner-Up: Marquette HN (Jack Hogan and Andy Nolan)

2000-2001
Champion: Marquette BN (Manav Bhatnagar and Andy Nolan)
Runner-Up: Brookfield Central MW (Nick Moore and Ted Watter)

2001-2002
Champion: Neenah BH (Alex Balistreri and Paul Hager)
Runner-Up: Marquette AB (Ankur Aggarwal and Manav Bhatnagar)

2002-2003
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Akansha Bhargava and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Hortonville TW (Michelle Tellock and Scott Weeman)

2003-2004
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Amit Bindra and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Appleton West PW (Maria Putzer and David Watson)

2004-2005
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Amit Bindra and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Neenah DW (Megan Degeneffe and Tom Wichman)

WI Love,
~Bill

[hazel05]

Originally Posted by jacobi

When I held my tournament last month, one local coach contacted me, disheartened about two L-D powerhouse teams in the metropolitan area, who discourage growing/developing programs.

(This is me posting as me, not a statement from my school)

I am personally very offended by the concept that "powerhouse teams" discourage growing/ developing programs. This year I have made a conscious effort to try and help the future of LD in WI. I taught a workshop at our school's WFCA Workshop for new LDers and coaches. A student approached me at Marquette and asked me for advice and I gave him a quick summary and told him to email me with any questions. Another new team has contacted my coach about LD, and I am sending over my lecture notes, videos, and novice handouts. I know my teammates have often explained concepts to newer participants after rounds (sometimes during). I don't see myself as some sort of LD expert, but I do know more than the average person who's never done it. So I don't see where this discouragement is coming from.

If the discouragement is the fact that certain teams tend to win a lot, I have two responses. First, these "powerhouse teams" (and I believe I am very familiar with both you refer to) generally put A LOT of work into the activity. If people want to beat them, then they should work just as hard. Second, it's not like said "powerhouse teams" were just granted success. Try to find an LDer from Brookfield East more than four years ago... there weren't any. I showed up to speech practice my frosh year and told Mrs. Wacker that I wanted to try LD. For much of freshmen year, although the coaches were encouraging, I didn't really have any experienced coaching or teammates. It wasn't until the following year that Jen Reel began coaching and a few other LDers joined that we had a consistent program. Because of our coaching and also because interest has grown, our team has grown to be very competitive on the local circuit. You don't have to be on a "powerhouse team" to do well, because all teams had to start somewhere.

I don't say this to draw attention to me and what I've done, just to prove that we're not all out to get everyone.

Liz Vieira

[reelj]

At the 2003 Fall WDCA meeting I talked with several coaches about the possibility of offering novice LD at more touranments. I was told that we consistently needed a pool of 30 or more debaters week after week to make that work. I like the Hortonville solution. I had 8 novice LDers this year, and they were very intimidated their first few times out to be debating much more experienced debaters. My response to them was that the more times you get your butt kicked, the stronger of a debater you'll be, but I know that didn't placate them very much. They responded very positively to being paired against other novices at Adam's tournament (thanks, Adam!).

Adam -- thanks for the update. As I said in an earlier post, I got Mary's story completely mixed up with God knows what else. My bad. Sorry for any misunderstanding I caused. In general, the comments from my kids about the state tournament have been very positive. Kudos!

And to add a completely random thing just to clarify, the only out of state tournament the Brookfield East LDers attend is the Glennbrooks, although we are (for the first time ever) going to the Blake tournament this weekend.

I'm not sure how to respond to the idea that there are "two LD powerhouse teams in the metro area that discourage growing/developing programs." I know Adam is just quoting another coach here. I hope that this comment was not intended to mean that these teams actively discourage other programs. I personally haven't seen anything on the circuit by any team that I would classify as discouraging others. If other people have witnessed such behavior, I would hope that the coach of that team would be contacted. If the comment meant that those teams discourage growing/developing programs simply by being successful, I would say to my debaters (as I actually do say to my debaters) -- watch those who are successful in debate. What do they do? You need to do that too. I would also remind my debaters that no one starts out a fantastic debater. The only way to become a good LD debater is to practice, practice, practice your skills and read, read, read about the topic and philosophy in general. My final thought is that if this coach really feels that these other teams are discouraging, perhaps he or she should approach the coaches of those teams (where I know they'll get a warm reception) about what they can do to be more encouraging. EVERYONE'S goal is to increase the quality of debate in Wisconsin.

[allisquirrel]

I can fill in some of the blanks in the history:

1995-1996 Champions: Brookfield Central Jason Deeken and Josh Friess
I'm pretty sure they beat a Brookfield East team in Finals.

1996-1997 Runners Up: Brookfield Central Josh Friess and Allen Hu

[jacobi]

This history thing is great. I will compile the information from this thread to post a "winner's circle" on the WDCA Web site! If people would like to further clarify as needed, that would be great.

[Traasatae]

Bill, these are the correct years for these champions...

1991-1992
Champion: Sheboygan North MR (Paul Maxon and Jason Renzelmen)
Runner-Up: Appleton East HR (Paul Hoffman and Jim Rose)

1992-1993
Champion: Appleton East BD (Ben Bayer and Nathan Dintenfass)
Runner-Up: Don't Know

1993-1994
Champion: Appleton East BR (John Brogan and Srinu Reddy)
Runner-Up: Don't know

I believe in 1994-95 Srinu Reddy and Nick Stumbris lost in Semis... I have to do some digging through some old files to find out the exact semis and finals pairing. This year was the first wave of Neenah switch-siders... (Robby Yablon, Andy Coan, Tony Seivert and Matt Wiswall.) Who had much success at NCFL. Kevin Lennon may be very helpful here too... actually, I believe he and Schwartz were in finals in 93-94 against Brogan and Reddy. But this was also a time when Sheboygan South had the first of the Billings boys... and Chris Western... and Nicolet had 2 quality teams too (the early Noonan years there)… there was plenty of quality debating that year! This was also the year of the immigration topic… and I recall a very entertaining final round at NFL qualifiers where Srinu Reddy gave the most improbable and entertaining 2AR that I have ever heard… I was a debate between Reddy and Stumbris from East against Seivert and Wiswall from Neenah. The panel was Bob Leet from Sheb South, D. Bosin from App West and Josh Heling (Josh Heling was an amazing debater from Brook Central who was top speaker at TOC in Kentucky in either 92 or 93) anyway, Reddy/Stumbris plan was adoption, and Srinu… with that panel, gave a 2AR that will hardly ever be forgotten… He did a 5 minute plea frequently quoting Sally Struthers about the starving children and how we need to save them, and he did it in an absolute serious tone… it was a 5 minute UNICEF commercial, that may be the most hilarious thing I have ever heard in a policy debate round. The decision was 3-0… I think Josh voted on pure entertainment value. (adaptation at it’s best!)

[debatedick15]

Originally Posted by Traasatae

Bill, these are the correct years for these champions...
This was also the year of the immigration topic… and I recall a very entertaining final round at NFL qualifiers where Srinu Reddy gave the most improbable and entertaining 2AR that I have ever heard… I was a debate between Reddy and Stumbris from East against Seivert and Wiswall from Neenah. The panel was Bob Leet from Sheb South, D. Bosin from App West and Josh Heling (Josh Heling was an amazing debater from Brook Central who was top speaker at TOC in Kentucky in either 92 or 93) anyway, Reddy/Stumbris plan was adoption, and Srinu… with that panel, gave a 2AR that will hardly ever be forgotten… He did a 5 minute plea frequently quoting Sally Struthers about the starving children and how we need to save them, and he did it in an absolute serious tone… it was a 5 minute UNICEF commercial, that may be the most hilarious thing I have ever heard in a policy debate round. The decision was 3-0… I think Josh voted on pure entertainment value. (adaptation at it’s best!)

HAHAHA!
Clearly, I was born 10 years too late. I would have killed to see that. Not really though. Peace.

[bigbillybatman]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed... 'tis appreciated (especially Traas - you gotta tell me more stories this weekend!). Here is the latest list including the top speakers I was able to track down. Please either post here or email me (bill@mountaincry.com) if you have any additions or corrections. Thanks!

1991-1992
Champion: Sheboygan North MR (Paul Maxon and Jason Renzelmen)
Runner-Up: Appleton East HR (Paul Hoffman and Jim Rose)
Top Speaker: Don't Know

1992-1993
Champion: Appleton East BD (Ben Bayer and Nathan Dintenfass)
Runner-Up: Marquette? (??)
Top Speaker: Don't Know

1993-1994
Champion: Appleton East BR (John Brogan and Srinu Reddy)
Runner-Up: Brookfield Central LS (Kevin Lennon and Amy Schwartz)
Top Speaker: John Brogan - Appleton East (?)

1994-1995
Champion: Neenah? (?? - either champ or runner-up)
Runner-Up: Don't Know
Top Speaker: Stuart McKenna - Brookfield Central (?)

1995-1996
Champion: Brookfield Central DF (Jason Deeken and Josh Friess)
Runner-Up: Brookfield East? (??)
Top Speaker: Don't Know

1996-1997
Champion: Appleton East KR (Eric Kessenich and Srikanth Reddy)
Runner-Up: Brookfield Central FH (Josh Friess and Allen Hu)
Top Speaker: Don't Know

1997-1998
Champion: Nicolet KS (Peter Klein and Nicole Serrano)
Runner-Up: Appleton East KR (Eric Kessenich and Srikanth Reddy)
Top Speaker: Peter Klein - Nicolet

1998-1999
Champion: Brookfield Central ES (Alison Eggert and Ankur Shah)
Runner-Up: Nicolet KN (Peter Klein and Ali Nikseresht)
Top Speaker: Don't Know

1999-2000
Champion: Brookfield Central SS (Bill Schwartz and Ankur Shah)
Runner-Up: Marquette HN (Jack Hogan and Andy Nolan)
Top Speaker: Kevin Thom - Marquette

2000-2001
Champion: Marquette BN (Manav Bhatnagar and Andy Nolan)
Runner-Up: Brookfield Central MW (Nick Moore and Ted Watter)
Top Speaker: Andy Nolan - Marquette

2001-2002
Champion: Neenah BH (Alex Balistreri and Paul Hager)
Runner-Up: Marquette AB (Ankur Aggarwal and Manav Bhatnagar)
Top Speaker: Manav Bhatnagar - Marquette

2002-2003
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Akansha Bhargava and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Hortonville TW (Michelle Tellock and Scott Weeman)
Top Speaker: Scott Weeman - Hortonville

2003-2004
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Amit Bindra and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Appleton West PW (Maria Putzer and David Watson)
Top Speaker: David Watson - Appleton West

2004-2005
Champion: Brookfield Central BB (Amit Bindra and Zack Brown)
Runner-Up: Neenah DW (Megan Degeneffe and Tom Wichman)
Top Speaker: Zack Brown - Brookfield Central

Who else would know this stuff? Bill McBride? Tom Noonan? If debaters who are reading this could show their (old school )coaches and see if they can remember, that would be sweet.

WI Love,
~Bill

[Bubbs]

Jim Sauer is the WDCA historian, and according to the by-laws (even though that phrase doesn't mean much these days), he's supposed to keep a record of WDCA historical documents and make them available to the public/wanting WDCA members. La Crosse is going to be at Blake and should be at NFL qualifiers too. So even if we (meaning all who care) couldn't find out anything from him at Blake, I'm sure he'd bring stuff to NFL qualifiers, if we ask him. He's pretty cool like that.

Also too, before Wilson came to Sheboygan I know the program continued and was successful in state, even if they weren't as good as Renzelman and Maxon. I'm pretty sure that the switch side division goes back farther than 1992, because some of the Sheboygan North history that I've collected (although I have no schems or anything) suggests that when they spoke of the "state tournament" they always meant the WDCA. I just moved a bunch of those emails around.

I may contact Henning too and see what he can remember, as he was coaching for Memorial in the 1980's.

[Traasatae]

Prior to the 90's when they talked about the state tournament, they were talking about WHSFA state tournament. There use to be 30+ VSS teams that would qualify for and compete in the VSS division in WHSFA. Prior to the 90's WFCA did not hold any varsity divisions... just JV and Novice. Thus the move to sort of re-unite the varsity divisions between the WDCA and the WHSFA movement.

Mr. Sauer is a great guy, but I don't believe the documents that he holds have much info about tournaments, competitors or results. While I can easily go back to 1988 in the speech world, I sadly can only go back to about 91 or 92 in the debate world.

[Bubbs]

Thanks Mike.

I'm working on putting this together for LD too. Here's what I have so far, I need some people to help me fill in the gaps as I don't get very far back.

The WDCA Records
2000-2001
Marquette Closes out. This was during the event's trial year. Thus, no state championship was given.

Distinguished Advocate (Champion): Marquette Ted Kohlberg
? (runner-up): Marquette Nick Turner

2001-2002
Champion: Appleton West Russ Rueden
Runner-Up: Appleton East Faris Rashid

This is the first year the event was sanctioned.

2002-2003
Marquette Closes out after Quarter Finals.
Champions:
David Mark
Casey Metz
Paul Bender
Nick Smith

Offically, Casey and Paul were designated as the finalists, with Casey being the champion. But it doesn't matter if you close out semi-finals. I believe there was also a Marquette coach over in Quarterfinals too.

2003-2004
Champion: Brookfield East Elizabeth Vieira
Runner-up: Hortonville Louise Benke

2004-2005
Champion: Brookfield East Elizabeth Vieira
Runner-Up: James Madison Memorial Brian Samuelson

And the WFCA results. (I'd included WHSFA ones too, but I don't know where they end or begin. I've never been apart of the WHSFA).

1990's-1998: I have no record. The old WFCA state tournament result log, which was really cool, has been removed from the website during several re-lauanches/re-fashionings of the website. And even so, these results only went back to 1997.

1998-1999
Champion: West Bend East Bill Batterman
Runner-up: ?

1999-2000
Champion: Marquette Tim Romanowich (sp?)
Runner-up: Appleton West Courtney Clement

2000-2001
Champion: Appleton North Justin Simard
Runner-up: Sheboygan North Nick Bubb

2001-2002
Champion: Sheboygan North Nick Bubb
Runner-up: Marquette Nick Turner
*Hornorary Championship: Hortonville Melissa Mistretta
This is the year of the big semi-final screw up. Nick Bubb was incorrectly advanced over Hortonville Melissa Mistretta in the Semi-Finals and went on the win the final round on 3-2 decision. The error was found only after the tournament had finished.

2002-2003
Champion: Brookfield East Courtney O’Brien
Runner-up: Hortonville Melissa Mistretta

2003-2004
Champion: Appleton West David Watson
Runner-up: Brookfield East Christine Kim